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Webinar

Reaching New Heights: Elevator Design for Tall Buildings 

Get updates in our blog: Oregon Elevator Code Update: A17.3 Planning Guide

 Click below for additional information and updates.

What You'll Learn:

  • How traffic analysis shapes elevator quantity, type, and layout
  • Which code requirements affect tall-building elevator design
  • How travel and speed limitations influence building zoning
  • Common elevator strategies, including sky lobbies, zoning, and destination dispatch
  • Key challenges such as sway, ride quality, stack effect, and travel limitations

Transcript

 

Read full webinar transcript

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Sara Korolevich: Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining.

 

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Sara Korolevich: We're going to get started in about a minute. We'll let everybody join.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Hang tight.

 

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Sara Korolevich: We'll get started in a minute.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay, let's get started.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Welcome everyone to VDA's webinar, Managing Campus Elevators, A Smarter Way to Take Control.

 

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Sara Korolevich: My name is Sarah Krolovich. I lead content and campaigns here at BDA, and I'm based in Phoenix.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thanks again for joining us today, wherever you're joining us from across the United States. If you want to put in the chat where you're at.

 

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Sara Korolevich: maybe what university or college campus you're coming. You're joining us from. I know a lot of you are Vda clients. Thank you for being here. We appreciate it.

 

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Sara Korolevich: For those of you who may not be familiar with VDA, we're a vertical transportation consulting firm serving clients across the US.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Canada, and the UK. We help with elevator and escalator design for new construction and modernization projects for existing buildings, and we also provide inspection services to help teams stay in compliance with local codes and regulations.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Programs like this webinar are meant to help building owners and facilities teams manage their elevator portfolios, from understanding maintenance contracts to planning for modernization.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Alright.

 

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Sara Korolevich: I'm gonna go through, some housekeeping items really quickly.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Please use the Zoom chat for comments, reactions, and links. You'll find some resources there, too, from our team.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Use the Zoom Q&A box at the bottom of your screen to submit any questions. We will have a live session at the end of the presentation with our presenters.

 

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Sara Korolevich: If you want to use the live transcript button, click the CC button to enable closed captioning.

 

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Sara Korolevich: And just a reminder that yes, we will be sharing the recording of the presentation along with the slides after the webinar. You'll find those in your email.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Disclaimer, the information provided during this webinar is for general educational and informational purposes only. It does not constitute professional or legal advice. Attendees are encouraged to consult with a qualified professional regarding their specific situation before taking any action based on the information presented.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Alright, let's meet our presenters.

 

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Sara Korolevich: We have with us today Michael Burns.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Michael Burns has been with VDA for a year, about a year, and has more than 18 years in the elevator industry. As one of our business development managers, he works with higher ed and healthcare clients nationally.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Mike Nolan has been with VDA for 14 years and has more than 40 years in the elevator industry. As a vertical transportation consultant based in Miami, he works with clients in health care, college and universities, and hotel industries.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thank you for being our presenters today, Michael and Mike.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right, here's what we're going to go over today, our agenda. We're going to take a look at elevators and why they're such a critical campus infrastructure.

 

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Sara Korolevich: A look at understanding maintenance contracts.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Knowing when modernization is the right move.

 

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Sara Korolevich: building a proactive oversight strategy. And then, as I mentioned, closing with a live Q&A session.

 

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Sara Korolevich: First, we want to start off with a quick poll.

 

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Sara Korolevich: If you wouldn't mind getting that started for us, Tommy.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right. What is your biggest challenge with campus elevators right now?

 

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Sara Korolevich: Managing maintenance issues and callbacks.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Planning for modernization or aging equipment.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Understanding contract terms and service expectations.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Staying compliant with codes and accessibility requirements.

 

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Sara Korolevich: or securing budget or leadership buy-in.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Give you a few seconds here to.

 

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Sara Korolevich: answer that poll, and I'll share the results with you.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Alright. Few more seconds. It looks like

 

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Sara Korolevich: Definitely planning for modernization or aging equipment is in the lead, followed by managing maintenance issues and callbacks.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right, if everybody's had a chance to vote, I'm going to go ahead and end the poll.

 

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Sara Korolevich: and share the results here.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Yes, planning for modernization or aging equipment, that is something we're going to touch on. Mike Nolan will share some information about that, as well as managing maintenance issues and callback. All right, I'm glad you all are joining us here for the webinar.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Let's see.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right. I'm going to go ahead and pass it over to Michael Burns.

 

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Sara Korolevich: who's going to talk a little bit about recognizing elevators as critical campus infrastructure. Michael.

 

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Michael Burns: All right, good morning, good evening, or excuse me, good afternoon, everyone.

 

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Michael Burns: I'm really excited to be here today and just wanted to thank everyone for joining today. I thought it'd be just a great way to kick off the webinar by talking about how critical elevators are to campus infrastructure and overall campus operations, as you all are aware, and probably one of the main reasons why you're on today's call.

 

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Michael Burns: Also wanted to start out by just how unique universities and higher ed facilities are.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, most of the campuses have dozens, if not hundreds of buildings that make up the campus.

 

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Michael Burns: They're also extremely diverse as well. You know, certainly you have classrooms and resident halls, but you also have dining courts. You know, if you have an athletic department, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of sporting events throughout the year. You know, certainly a lot of social activities, alumni events, as well as, you know, potential for, for medical research facilities as well.

 

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Michael Burns: So certainly very unique and very diverse.

 

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Michael Burns: These are also extremely high traffic environments. You know, there's a lot of people that are in and out of these buildings on a daily basis.

 

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Michael Burns: And having operating and reliable elevator infrastructure is just so critical to the overall campus operations.

 

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Michael Burns: you know. Certainly accessibility and Ada is of the utmost importance.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, the people that rely on, you know, services as well as the elevators to get, you know, in and out of a building and being able to access, you know, different floors within the property is so, so important.

 

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Michael Burns: And really wanted to mention just campus experience as a whole, you know, for whoever's on the campus at any given time, whether it's students or people visiting.

 

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Michael Burns: or even the staff and faculty, you know, I think the basic expectations a lot of time is that, you know, in the summertime, that the air conditioner is working properly, or, you know, when it's cold out, that the heating is working.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, students these days, I would imagine that they're wanting access to

 

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Michael Burns: reliable Wi-Fi services. And I think, you know, elevators are also in that bucket where, you know, when everything on the campus is operating as intended, I think it's just generally a positive experience for those that are on the campus.

 

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Michael Burns: you know. Lastly, building security. You know, we understand a lot of the elevator systems are tied into the the building security and providing secure access to

 

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Michael Burns: you know, a lot of the resident halls or the medical labs, and just the important role that elevators have in, you know, that secure asset or access, as well as just a general safety aspect for these buildings. We can go to next slide.

 

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Michael Burns: Alright, so shifting gears, you know, when, you know, you guys know when things go wrong, you know, there's a high cost of downtime. So when there's elevator issues, or maybe repeat calls, you know, unplanned downtime.

 

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Michael Burns: It really causes a lot of disruption for the overall campus operations. I was lucky to attend the Elevator U Conference recently in Quincy, Illinois, and sat through a lot of presentations as well as was able to interact with a lot of the facility leaders that handle

 

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Michael Burns: you know, small campuses and large campuses across the country. And, you know, it's amazing that a single elevator that's out of service or, you know, a single elevator that's outage can really cause a lot of disruptions for the campus operation.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, these are extremely busy buildings. There's a lot going on, throughout the day. You know, certainly you have classes.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, majority of the time there's construction projects going on, you know, cleaning services, there's daily deliveries, and it really creates a lot of bottleneck when the elevator is out of service. You know, it diverts a lot of the resources away from planned work as well.

 

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Michael Burns: And, you know, unexpected costs and emergency premiums. You know, I like to think, you know, if you have a campus building, maybe there's one elevator in the building, or maybe there's just a critical unit within that space.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, a lot of times you're going to be approving for overtime callbacks to try to get the elevator running as quickly as possible.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, maybe, again, if it's a critical unit, you're gonna have the repair team complete the work on overtime, so you're gonna be incurring additional costs for that.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, certainly you're going to be expediting the components as best you can. And, you know, these unexpected costs and premiums, they really impact your overall annual budget as well.

 

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Michael Burns: and student experience. I kind of talked about this on the last slide with the you know, the campus experience. But you know, students are paying

 

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Michael Burns: a lot of money for their education, and, you know, when the HVAC system's not working, when the elevator isn't working, they're taking the stairs.

 

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Michael Burns: I think it truly impacts the overall perception that the students have of the campus. You know, certainly if there's delays in classroom, like I mentioned, if they're, you know, having to access the building on a daily basis.

 

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Michael Burns: through the stairwell. If they have accessibility challenges, I think it just causes a lot of frustration and really impacts their overall perception of the campus.

 

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Michael Burns: And lastly, safety and liability. You know, when you're dealing with elevator issues and, you know, callbacks, certainly there's always an increased risk for passenger entrapments as well. And, you know, it's the potential to lead to legal claims, as well as units that are left down for,

 

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Michael Burns: a longer period of time, you've got risk of fines or even violations, as a result of that. So I'll now pass it to Sarah.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Michael. All right, we're going to keep going. I'm gonna pass it over to Mike Nolan, who's gonna talk a little bit about understanding your elevator maintenance contracts. Mike?

 

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Mike Nolan: hello everybody I'm Mike Nolan nice to be with you all and joining us on this webinar I've been in obviously the elevator industry for a long time 40 years and been with VDA for 14 I'm also a third generation guy so

 

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Mike Nolan: Family's been in elevators forever. Anyway, I want to talk a little bit about maintenance contracts.

 

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Mike Nolan: Oem contracts, which is, you know, equipment, original equipment manufacturers, or I prefer to call elevator main, contractor agreements.

 

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Mike Nolan: You know.

 

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Mike Nolan: I don't want to see most people do the actual elevator contractors contracts because it protects them more than it does the client, which is you guys.

 

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Mike Nolan: And, you know, the obsolete language is excluded from contracts. Parts are very limited to what they're going to cover under your contracts.

 

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Mike Nolan: Now I'm.

 

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Mike Nolan: Obsolescence, obviously, is an issue, which we'll talk a little bit more about that later. The legal terms, there's a lot of stuff that gets involved, and like.

 

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Mike Nolan: during a maintenance, OEM maintenance agreement, a lot of times, something's not covered, and they're going to give you a proposal to fix it, because it wasn't covered under the contract. The margins on repair is astronomical, sometimes 40, 60, and 80% margins on these proposals.

 

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Mike Nolan: Now, consultant full maintenance agreement, that's a little bit different. If like VDA was to do the maintenance agreement, we would protect you on everything throughout the whole thing. What parts are being covered, you know, whether it be machines, generators, door equipment, all that stuff will be typically covered under maintenance contract.

 

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Mike Nolan: We also talk about service calls, how long, what they're supposed to be doing maintenance-wise, monthly, typically.

 

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Mike Nolan: in a VDA language, we would have them do one hour a month for strictly hydraulic, two hours a month for per traction elevator, and then we can follow what they're doing throughout the maintenance contract to protect you guys. Response times are critical.

 

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Mike Nolan: elevator companies

 

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Mike Nolan: talk about periodic, maintenance in their contracts. We're telling them, no, your response times need to be… or your, maintenance needs to be done monthly, and… and so many hours per elevator.

 

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Mike Nolan: And response times are critical, so our language in that document will also tell them they gotta be here. If a car goes down, they gotta be here in an hour, hour and a half.

 

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Mike Nolan: Two hours on weekend, depending upon your situation.

 

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Mike Nolan: But that's pretty much how maintenance contracts are.

 

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Mike Nolan: My… obviously, my opinion is go consultant. It's gonna protect you at some point.

 

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Mike Nolan: Next slide.

 

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Mike Nolan: Five common provisions that put you at risk. Okay. Contracts. Typical OEM contract.

 

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Mike Nolan: Since a 3-year or 5-year contract, it… you look at the deadline, a lot of times they have that language in there that says rollover, which means if you're not paying attention 30, 60, 90 days, depending on what the language says, it can automatically rollover for an additional 5 years, and sometimes you don't even know what happened.

 

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Mike Nolan: So that language would be removed if we decide to help you with it.

 

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Mike Nolan: Frequencies, maintenance, periodic.

 

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Mike Nolan: Again, periodic means, in my opinion, whenever they feel like it. There's no way to determine.

 

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Mike Nolan: If your elevators are…

 

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Mike Nolan: Being maintained without going and doing evaluations to find out. But most of these contracts have periodic or systematic maintenance.

 

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Mike Nolan: Service calls, response times. Again, we want to know

 

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Mike Nolan: When they're going to be on the job, if you get a car shut down, it needs to be repaired immediately.

 

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Mike Nolan: Parts, coverage, storage… That's another thing.

 

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Mike Nolan: A lot of times the elevator companies don't have the parts there. They're going to say they're going to fix them, but it could take a week, two weeks, three weeks to get parts

 

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Mike Nolan: We typically would like to see parts, your average parts, like door equipment, cart rollers, pickup rollers, stuff that doors, because doors on an elevator are probably 80% of your shutdowns because they're not being maintained. But to have the parts there will just help it get fixed quicker. Typically, that doesn't happen.

 

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Mike Nolan: Next slide.

 

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Mike Nolan: Okay, understanding obsolescence.

 

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Mike Nolan: So… Obsolescence is, is, is, has been a tough category lately because.

 

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Mike Nolan: The OEMs who make majority of the elevator equipment in the world, typically a life cycle of an elevator before it needs to be considered for modernization is 20, 25 years.

 

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Mike Nolan: And that's basically saying, hey, we don't build these controller boards anymore. All the equipment associated with your elevators is not available anymore. Can't find parts, so on.

 

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Mike Nolan: Was 20, 25 years. Now we're seeing it being shrunk down to sometimes 12 years. A lot of door operators.

 

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Mike Nolan: are being discontinued at 12 years.

 

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Mike Nolan: Unfortunately, the life cycle is probably 15 to 20 years would be a little bit more accurate now.

 

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Mike Nolan: And obviously, that's probably because, you know, I hate to say it, but elevator manufacturers probably want to sell more equipment, so they're reducing their

 

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Mike Nolan: Obsolescence lifespan, for that.

 

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Mike Nolan: And then, on downtime and, unexpected costs.

 

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Mike Nolan: If you have it on your main, there's no way of knowing when you're going to get the parts. So like a VDA, FMA, or modernization document, we'll talk about obsolescence. We have it very, very, very strict obsolescence language.

 

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Mike Nolan: in there that will help protect the client on their elevator, especially campuses. I know how campuses non-stop move, so…

 

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Mike Nolan: That's, that's on the obsolescence language. Next slide.

 

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Mike Nolan: I think, it's back to you, S.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Yes, thank you, Mike Nolan, for that. I'm going to pass it over again to Michael, and he's going to talk a little bit about knowing when modernization is the right move.

 

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Michael Burns: All right, thank you, Sarah. Yeah, assessing the real cost of aging infrastructure, you know, there's a statistic on the screen here, and it's an important one.

 

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Michael Burns: over 50%. So over half of the elevators that are currently in higher Ed facilities are either at or past their life expectancy. You know, as as Mike kind of mentioned on the previous slide, you know, elevators typically used to always have a, you know, a 20 to 25 year life expectancy. And for the most part they run

 

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Michael Burns: pretty reliably during that period of time. You know, that 20-year mark is really when you start to see a lot of the components are wearing down and showing signs of age. You know, as Mike mentioned, you know, there's certainly, in today's industry, there's a lot of sourcing challenges and obsolescence.

 

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Michael Burns: I think a great example of this is elevator drives and drive components. You know, these drives and, you know, the vendors that make these drives and components, they used to support the equipment kind of through the life cycle of the elevator, you know, had support, had spare parts, spare boards.

 

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Michael Burns: And, you know, really what we're seeing today is that a lot of these vendors aren't producing them, as long, you know, they're not supplying parts or support. And it's, you know, it's making these, these parts and including drives, obsolete much sooner. And really what that does to the customer is it increases the risk, increases their liability and and ultimately increases a lot.

 

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Michael Burns: of the cost and out-of-pocket costs that are required to get these elevators operational.

 

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Michael Burns: Next slide.

 

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Michael Burns: All right. So end of life warning signs. So there's typically signs and indications that your elevator is starting to wear down. You know, some good indicators are increasing callback frequency. So if you have a unit that is, that has more than 4 callbacks per year.

 

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Michael Burns: per unit. It's typically a good indication that the system is beginning to wear.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, parts unavailable, unavailability.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, if you're having longer lead times, if you're seeing lead times for items that used to be, you know, the ability to overnight, or had short lead times, if now they're exceeding that 2-4 week

 

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Michael Burns: lead time period. It's a really a good indication that maybe the manufacturer is not supporting them as they once were, and maybe parts aren't being produced anymore.

 

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Michael Burns: escalating repair costs. You know, if you're having a lot of

 

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Michael Burns: Repair costs associated with getting the elevator back up and running, you know, if that's approaching or exceeding the entire cost of a modernization, you're really just band-aiding these systems.

 

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Michael Burns: That have obsolete parts, and, you know, you really need to start a plan to, you know, put that money towards a complete overhaul of the system, which we'll talk about here in the coming slides.

 

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Michael Burns: you know. Certainly, if the elevator has increased downtime is another indication.

 

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Michael Burns: And then, you know, Mike and I both talked about the system age, just with where the industry is in today, you know, we're seeing a lot of these components become obsolete, no longer supported, where that 15-year mark is just really a great time to

 

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Michael Burns: you know, start start thinking about modernization and doing a complete overhaul of the system.

 

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Michael Burns: and I'll now send it over to Mike to talk about the benefits of modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: Hi, everybody. Hi again. So benefits of modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: the biggest thing is knowing when your elevators are going to need to be modernized so we can plan accordingly. Typically, I would recommend doing… you get between 10 to 15 years, start looking, doing a full evaluation, comprehensive evaluation on your elevators.

 

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Mike Nolan: So you can or we can take a better look at when that came so you can capital plan to have this work done prior to getting these cars modernized.

 

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Mike Nolan: It's definitely gonna improve your uptime.

 

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Mike Nolan: I'm trying to get on these elevators and be more dependable with less callbacks. Modernization will help that big time. It lowers your risk on aging equipment.

 

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Mike Nolan: Costly surprises.

 

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Mike Nolan: support campus flow. Obviously, kids are going to school on campuses, they need to get to class as soon as possible, or at least on time then. I know when my kids were little and they went to college, they were in no hurry to get anywhere until the elevators didn't work.

 

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Mike Nolan: Being an elevator guy my whole life, I heard about it all the time.

 

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Mike Nolan: And then, plan smarter, project infrastructure value and support long-term budgeting.

 

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Mike Nolan: So we can definitely help you with that piece if ever needed. Next slide.

 

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Mike Nolan: Modernization risks.

 

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Mike Nolan: So, modernization risk,

 

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Mike Nolan: You know, there's a lot of… I've been on a few campuses in the past where they've kind of took on the risks themselves and didn't use

 

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Mike Nolan: A consultant,

 

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Mike Nolan: for whatever reason, and I'm not saying it failed, it was just… it became costly, because a lot of times.

 

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Mike Nolan: VDA will suggest doing the turnkey project, so there's no expenditures that are going to happen during the modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: Misalignment and misaligned interest.

 

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Mike Nolan: It's very hard to conduct misaligned interest because contractor recommendation may not always align with the campus priorities.

 

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Mike Nolan: Campuses want their work done, but a lot of times they don't understand.

 

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Mike Nolan: the issues with the modernization, what… before, once it gets started. Unclear scope.

 

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Mike Nolan: Again, I'm gonna bring this back up.

 

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Mike Nolan: if you do a modernization, and we're gonna put… you're gonna put it out to bid to elevator contractors, we want to make sure that it's a turnkey project. So, going into the bids, we know whatever company you decide to pick.

 

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Mike Nolan: where the cost is going to make sense to the campus university.

 

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Mike Nolan: And then coordination gaps.

 

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Mike Nolan: Subcontractor work can create confusion around accountability and project control.

 

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Mike Nolan: So,

 

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Mike Nolan: When you do modernize an elevator, one of the big things that a lot of people don't know is, yeah, the elevator's gonna be modernized because it's, it's obsolete, or it's ran its life cycle, but then there's other contractor costs that are involved, like electricity in the pit areas.

 

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Mike Nolan: air conditioning and machine rooms if it's needed, fire command, all that different stuff needs to be incorporated in that typically when you start modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: And we can help you with all of that if you decide to go that route and get rid of all these risks if ever needed.

 

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Mike Nolan: And that's that's next slide.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right, we're going to go back to Michael Burns.

 

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Michael Burns: All right. So how VDA can provide professional support for you guys? You know, I would imagine some of the people on today's call, maybe you've never worked with an elevator consulting firm before or worked with VDA. We also understand that a lot of the universities across the country, they have their own in-house experts, you know, whether that's their own

 

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Michael Burns: in-house mechanics, or you know, maybe they have a ex elevator professional that that handles the elevator portfolio for the campus. So there's a lot of ways that we can support you, regardless of you know, if it's in in-house, or maybe just run by the facilities team.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, we work with over 100 campuses nationally, so we have the expertise in a lot of the higher ed facilities. And there's a lot of ways that we can get involved. And it really starts with maintenance management. You know, Mike did a great job of talking about the importance of having consultant paper.

 

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Michael Burns: Rather than signing a vendor agreement, you know, the… a consultant paper, the BDA paper, you know, it puts a lot more accountability on the vendor, and it takes a lot of the risk and liability away from the owner, you know, can really, you know.

 

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Michael Burns: have it benefit the ownership through specified KPIs, response time, special billing rates. Truly important to get on some type of consultant paper. You know, we also have services where we control unbudgeted expenses, so we do all the cost mitigation on your guys' behalf.

 

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Michael Burns: So, any repair proposal.

 

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Michael Burns: any, callback invoice, you know, we review that, you know, we're checking it for accuracy, you know, we're making sure that the billing rates are correct.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, making sure it's not something that's covered in your agreement. You know, you wouldn't believe how many times, you know, callbacks are billed, or maybe a repair is… a proposal is sent for a repair or upgrade where it's already included within your agreement.

 

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Michael Burns: So, you know, we look out for your best interest, you know, with controlling your costs and doing all the cost mitigation on your guys' behalf.

 

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Michael Burns: equipment evaluations and capital planning. I think this is a great way for Vda to get involved with your campus, you know, having our team come out and perform

 

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Michael Burns: an independent assessment of your equipment, validating the current maintenance status, as well as looking at the current condition of the equipment, and then working with you to come up with both short-term and long-term CapEx projects, working with you to prioritize those repairs and work with

 

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Michael Burns: You know, your guys annual budget as well. You know, modernization services. Mike did a great job of talking about the benefits and the risk of modernizations. But, you know, the reality is that modernizations are extremely technical. They're also extremely costly. You know, we have the expertise to kind of handle that entire process.

 

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Michael Burns: for you guys. And then, lastly, inspections. You know.

 

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Michael Burns: wherever you are across the country, your elevators are required to be inspected annually. You know, certainly states are different. You know, some states are, provide state inspections, but a lot of the states are now moving to a third-party inspection company.

 

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Michael Burns: So VDA, we have an entire division that is just devoted for inspections. You know, we're the largest inspection company in the United States, and, you know, happy to provide those inspections. We have resources throughout the country that can handle those for you.

 

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Michael Burns: And we also have inspection oversight services that we offer as well.

 

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Michael Burns: You know, working to do the deficiency tracking.

 

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Michael Burns: Working to schedule all the inspections, you know, making sure that, you know, from start to finish, we're handling the entire process on your guys' behalf, and making sure that you guys pass and get your certificates on time, so…

 

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Michael Burns: Next slide, sir.

 

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Michael Burns: All right. So, that ends today's, presentation is as far as next steps. So, you know, if you if you have an interest in what was discussed today or, you know, maybe you're having some challenges or issues, you know, with your current portfolio or even trying to plan for future projects.

 

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Michael Burns: There's, you can go to our website, there's also an email here, and then a QR code. I would really highly recommend that you take advantage of it. We'd love to set up just a quick 30-minute call.

 

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Michael Burns: you know, learn more about your portfolio, what your needs are, you know, maybe some of your pain points. But the big thing is, is we're here as a resource for you guys, and and would love an opportunity to kind of continue this this conversation.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Great. Thank you so much, Michael. And thank you, Mike Nolan, as well.

 

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Sara Korolevich: So I want to remind you that we do have a live Q&A session. I see a couple of questions coming in through the Q&A chat.

 

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Sara Korolevich: please go ahead and use that, and we will get to that. Before we do, though, I want to ask a quick poll, and as Michael said, you know, we're happy to set up, a free consultation.

 

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Sara Korolevich: If you'd like VDA to reach out, we can do that, make it very easy for you. Go ahead and click yes or no, and then we'll get to the live Q&A session.

 

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Sara Korolevich: It's great. Thank you.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right, let's get started. Let me find those questions here.

 

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Sara Korolevich: I'm gonna stop sharing my screen.

 

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Sara Korolevich: There we go.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Alright, here is one. Someone wants to know, Mike, maybe you can take this. What is the lead time for materials after a modernization contract is executed?

 

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Mike Nolan: Okay, so how that works is basically if you put it out to bid, then you get back, you pick the contract that you're happy with moving forward with the modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: After the initial down payment, and then we go into submittals and picking out cab interiors or whatever.

 

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Mike Nolan: Once that's done, then they go into manufacturing and that can typically take for a traction elevator, it can probably take from anywhere from 15 to 20 weeks before you see the initial material to start the modernization.

 

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Mike Nolan: It seems like a long… it can be 4 months before you get material after contract is awarded, but a lot of times, campuses like that because of

 

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Mike Nolan: You know, they need to capitalize on the expenditure.

 

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Mike Nolan: So, and then hydraulic elevators, typically.

 

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Mike Nolan: I would say probably 5 to 10 weeks. You can get those a little bit quicker.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay, thank you.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thank you. Look at the next question here.

 

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Sara Korolevich: This goes along with modernization. How far in advance should we start planning for modernization projects?

 

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Mike Nolan: I go 15 years.

 

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Mike Nolan: My, I mean, 10 to 15 years start, start thinking about.

 

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Mike Nolan: you know, I Campuses are a little bit different, but, you know, I have a lot of projects that

 

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Mike Nolan: I want to know what the expenditure is going to be well in hand so they can budget for it. So I would say probably 10 to 15 years. I would start planning it on a traction elevator. Hydraulic elevators are the same.

 

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Mike Nolan: As far as… because it's controllers, we're talking about door operators and stuff like that.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay, thank you.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Going back to maintenance, what are typical response times we should expect for maintenance?

 

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Mike Nolan: Michael, you want to take that?

 

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Michael Burns: Yeah. So you know, it can vary depending on the type of building. But you know, we typically have standard specifications, you know. Certainly during business hours for entrapments, you know, a 30 to 45 min window is is acceptable.

 

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Michael Burns: you know, during normal business hours, you know, on 1 h response time, and then, you know, depending on where you are throughout the country, or or you know, maybe where the techs are located for the the vendor, you know. Typical overtime callback response time is is 2 h is pretty pretty reasonable. But you know all that can be. Whenever we write these contracts, you know, we always

 

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Michael Burns: figure out what your needs are of the building and the property, and make sure that we're accounting for that when we do specify these response times.

 

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Mike Nolan: Yeah, Mike, I would also like to add to that the, the couple of colleges or.

 

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Mike Nolan: Colleges that I have now, they…

 

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Mike Nolan: The only… they have a resident mechanic on site 8 hours a day.

 

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Mike Nolan: And the response times after that, so calls are generated during the day, are typically picked up right away, as long as the mechanic's not doing something, but after hours, Mike's accurate, Michael's accurate on those response times.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay, thank you. I have another one.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Can you speak about pre-existing condition language when bidding new contracts?

 

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Mike Nolan: Michael, you want to try that one?

 

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Michael Burns: Why don't you handle that one, M.

 

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Mike Nolan: I'd say, can you repeat the question again.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Can you talk about pre-existing condition language when bidding on new contracts?

 

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Mike Nolan: We're talking… I'm assuming we're talking about a maintenance contract, pre-existing conditions. So, typically, if you're gonna put… so you're not happy with your elevator contractor, and you want to move forward with a new contractor.

 

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Mike Nolan: you put it out to bid, and there are going to be some pre-existing conditions. if there is some, then the when you're doing, when we get the contract back, there's probably going to be clarifications in there talking about it.

 

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Mike Nolan: that they're not going to cover pre-existing conditions. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't, sometimes they miss them. It just depends on the situation and the environment that they're doing, they're going to get the bid on.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay, thank you. We have another one. You mentioned having a full-time person on site. Mike, how many units would justify a full-time on-site tech being assigned to campus?

 

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Mike Nolan: Great question.

 

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Mike Nolan: So, I don't want to say the university, but the university I'm at right now.

 

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Mike Nolan: is about 128 units.

 

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Mike Nolan: So there's a resident mechanic on site for that.

 

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Mike Nolan: Typically, in the elevator industry, what's really bad about the… what's good about the 120 hours is you're getting better coverage.

 

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Mike Nolan: Than you would if you sent a mechanic home after each call, and he didn't stay on campus.

 

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Mike Nolan: You get much better service, but the problem is these elevator contractors now

 

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Mike Nolan: Are their maintenance guys are 3 to 400 elevators that they're supposed to be maintaining monthly.

 

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Mike Nolan: And they're not getting maintenance done, they're just answering calls

 

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Mike Nolan: So having a resident mechanic there is going to be much more beneficial for you guys than it would be if you were to have them.

 

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Mike Nolan: Come in and not be a resident.

 

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Mike Nolan: And then, like, obviously, the cost is probably gonna be better.

 

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Sara Korolevich: A related question. How many technicians should be on site for daily issues for an area that is servicing 143 elevators, escalators, and lifts?

 

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Mike Nolan: I'd say probably a mechanic and an apprentice helper.

 

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Mike Nolan: Would be enough.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Okay.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Let's see…

 

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Sara Korolevich: One more, I think. You can keep adding questions if you like, everyone. I see one more came in. What would be the next step for you to help us with our elevator portfolio?

 

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Michael Burns: Yeah, I'll take this one, Mike. I mean, you know, really setting up a call with us, you know, really trying to figure out what your needs are, maybe if there's any pain points you're dealing with. You know, I mentioned it in my last slide. Usually a great way to start out is us performing those equality evaluations or comprehensive evaluations.

 

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Michael Burns: you know, really doing an independent assessment of your guys equipment to, you know. Figure out what the condition of the units are. You know where your your maintenance, your deferred maintenance is, you know. So evaluation is always a great, great place to start, but also inspections. I mean inspections. You're already required to do those annually. Anyways, you know, we have the expertise and and the resources to provide those as well.

 

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Michael Burns: Those are two great entry points, but really it's, it's, you know, however you'd like us to be involved, you know, certainly there's a lot of aging infrastructure, as I mentioned, so…

 

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Michael Burns: You know, if you want information on capital planning or some modernization services, be happy to to speak to you all about that as well.

 

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Sara Korolevich: All right. Well, I appreciate everyone's time. Mike, Michael, thank you for presenting great information.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thank you everyone for joining our webinar, and as I mentioned before, we'll be in touch with the webinar recording along with the slides.

 

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Sara Korolevich: Thank you for joining us.

 

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Mike Nolan: Thank you, everybody.

 

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Michael Burns: Yep.

 

Transcript

read full webinar Transcript

[00:00:00] Sara Korolevich: Good morning, everybody—and good afternoon to some of you. Welcome, and thank you for joining our webinar, “Elevator Design for Tall Buildings.” My name is Sara Korolevich, and I lead content and campaigns at VDA. I'm based in Phoenix. Please say hello in the chat and let us know where you're joining us from.

Many of you are clients of VDA, D2E, or GUNN—welcome. For those who may not be familiar with VDA, we are a vertical transportation consulting firm serving clients across the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. VDA provides elevator consulting services across the life cycle of your buildings, helping you make decisions with the full picture in mind, whether that involves elevator and escalator design for new construction or modernization planning for existing installations.

Programs like this webinar are intended to help building owners, developers, and architects better understand vertical transportation design challenges and solutions.

Just a few housekeeping notes. You can use the Zoom chat for comments, and we'll be sharing some links. Please use the Q&A box at the bottom of your screen for any questions, and we will get to those at the end when we have our live Q&A session. If you need a live transcript, you can click the CC button.

Just a reminder: the recording and slides will be shared after the webinar. If you're joining us for continuing education credits through the AIA in the U.S., Canada, or the U.K., we'll explain how to receive those credits at the end of the presentation. All right, one quick disclaimer: the information provided during this webinar is for general educational and informational purposes only.

It does not constitute professional or legal advice. Attendees are encouraged to consult a qualified professional about their specific situation before taking any action based on the presentation. Now, let's get to the good stuff: our presenters. This is a unique opportunity to hear from three vertical transportation experts within the VDA family, representing three of our global offices.

Michael Muñoz is VDA's senior vice president of design services and brings 20 years of experience leading the planning, design, and coordination of elevator and escalator systems for projects worldwide. Eric Peterson is president and CEO of GUNN. He is a professional engineer and qualified elevator inspector with nearly 30 years of experience in elevator system design, engineering, inspections, and construction oversight.

Paul Burns, based in London, is the [00:03:00] design director at D2E and brings more than 20 years of experience developing vertical transportation strategies for complex projects in the U.K. and globally.

Here's our agenda for today. We'll discuss tall-building code requirements, elevator strategies, design issues for tall buildings, and international perspectives. Then, of course, we'll move into a live Q&A session. I'll also share information about continuing education credits and how to contact our presenters or VDA generally. With that, I'll hand it over to Michael Muñoz.

Michael's going to speak a little bit about tall buildings generally around the world what that looks like. Michael, I'll hand it over to you.

[00:03:50] Michael Muñoz : Great. Thanks, Sara. Appreciate the introduction. So obviously we're talking about tall buildings here, and the word tall is maybe subjective, and so we want to make sure everyone's using the same definition or vernacular.

These are some statistics showing where tall and supertall buildings are located around the world. The information comes from our friends at the CTBUH, the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat. We define a tall building here as one measuring at least 200 meters, or 650 feet, and a supertall building as one measuring at least 300 meters, or 984 feet. One quick point of clarification: the supertall buildings listed in the table on the right are also included in the table on the left because they exceed 200 meters.

And so what we can see is that for both tall and super tall buildings, the majority, overwhelming percentage are in Asia, right? There's a good amount in the Middle East, followed by North America, then Europe, Africa and lastly, South America. What's really interesting here, though, is that the spread doesn't change too much from tall to super tall.

A little less than 10% of tall buildings qualify as supertall: 256 out of 2,580. This helps frame the types of buildings we're discussing and provides a sense of how many currently exist worldwide. We can go to the next slide.

And we'll just point out a few projects that the VDA family of companies has consulted on that fall into the super tall. These are all, 1,000 feet or better. Strong presence of projects in New York City, but also we've got some from we've got a project from Egypt, the Iconic Tower, and we've got the Al Hamra Tower in Kuwait.

Many more buildings qualify as tall by exceeding 200 meters, but we wanted to provide a small sample of projects this group has [00:06:00] worked on in the past. From here, we'll begin discussing codes, and I'll turn it over to Paul Burns.

[00:06:12] Paul Burns: Thank you, Michael. Thank you very much, and Sara, thank you for the introduction. So I'm Paul Burns. I'm with D2E based here in London in the U. K.. And for the next few minutes I'll be exploring some of the challenges associated with compliance and safety around vertical transportation in tall buildings.

Next slide, please. Codes, standards, regulations, guidance, legislation, bills, and acts are all terms that describe the national and international rules we collectively agree to follow. They range from full legal requirements to general best practices. Although their primary purpose is to protect passengers and those who work on or around elevators, some also address how elevators should behave in an emergency, equal access for people with mobility impairments, continuity of elevator operations in certain geographic regions such as seismic zones, and compatibility between lifts or elevators and other electromechanical systems in the building.

Next slide, please

And in addition to these national and international rules, developers and operators of particular types of buildings often have their own requirements that have evolved over years of experience, particular customer feedback, and so on. And whilst these requirements aren't enforced by approving authorities, knowledge of what they are and compliance with them is no less important to the projects we work on and we support.

Next slide, please.

Most regions of the world—and most individual countries—have a national body responsible for certification, inspection, and standardization related to construction in the built environment within that jurisdiction. The VDA Group of companies is uniquely positioned to support international projects, with offices not only across the United States and Canada, but also in the United Kingdom, Mumbai, Jordan, and, most recently, Dubai. This allows us to draw on international knowledge and firsthand local experience.

A large number, if not most, of these national regulatory bodies tend to leverage the North American ASME/CSA harmonized code or the European harmonized EN 81 code series when setting their own requirements for vertical transportation. Next slide, [00:09:00] please. And in addition to those particular codes and standards, there are other frequently used international standards, which include the ISO 8100 series, of which ISO 8100-1 for passenger and goods passenger lifts was recently published in Europe.

The National Fire Protection Association, NFPA 70, also known as the NEC or National Electrical Code, which focuses primarily on a building's electrical requirements and protection in fire. And the International Code Council's International Building Code, IBC, which began its life in North America, but is increasingly being seen and adopted around the world.

Its North American origins mean it tends to reference ASME and CSA rather than EN 81. And chapter 30 is of particular relevance for elevators and conveying systems. Next slide, please

So fire and life safety codes tend to be a particular and an obvious focus for elevators and buildings in general. So I'm going to spend the next few minutes reviewing fire and life safety requirements of the ASME/CSA codes, code and the EN 81 series. The elevator codes themselves have very little to say about how many firefighters’ lifts a building needs, or in- or indeed where they need to be located in the building.

ASME/CSA requires at least at least one firefighters’ lift in a building. And EN 81-72, which is the firefighters code in the European harmonized codes, really has very little to say about that subject at all. This information should come from the fire strategy, and that is produced and the domain of the fire consultant.

So that collaboration and coordination is important. There are other documents available which have relevant information. For example, in the U. K., we have the U. K. Building Regulations Part B British Standard BS 9999 for buildings that are not dwellings, or BS 9991 for dwellings, that provide particular guidance on the number and location of, and when a firefighters’ lift is needed.

So specifically buildings that have an occupied level greater than 18 meters above the fire service access level or 10 meters below that level require a firefighters’ lift. For floor areas greater than 900 square meters, a second firefighter shaft is required. The firefighters’ lift has to serve every floor in the building except the top floor, if that is a plant floor.

And there are particular requirements in terms of how many shafts there should be and to what distance they should be, which is governed by the maximum hose distances, which themselves are governed [00:12:00] by or contingent upon whether the building includes sprinklers or not. So next slide, please.

The fire and life safety codes do, however, provide good guidance on how firefighters’ elevators and lifts are required to be configured. And whilst the themes, the general principles are similar, there are specific differences. For example, the ASME/CSA code has a minimum capacity requirement of 900 kg or about 2,000 pounds.

All levels need to be served. It limits a changeover to just one to reach the top of the building, an elevator change to reach the top of the building of just one. Standby power is a requirement. There must be communications between a fire command center or central alarm control facility and the elevator itself.

The command or control center requires a secondary elevator recall switch or function, and initiating the firefighters' emergency operation function triggers pit drains and sumps in all elevators. Next slide, please. Compared to EN 81-72, the minimum capacity requirement in EN 81-72 is 630 kg or about 1,390 pounds.

And EN 81-72 gives minimum requirements for the car footprint, the area of the car, and entrance dimensions. This code requires that the firefighters' lifts reach the top of the building in 60 seconds or less for buildings up to 200 meters, so tall buildings. And thereafter, there are concessions of an additional second for every three meters in height for the lift to reach the top of the building.

Again, standby power or standby power is a requirement. There must be means to control water, so that is, as a preference, prevent water getting into the shaft in the first place. Again, communications between the car, the lift control points, the machine room or the machine-room-less control panel, and a command center are required.

And also electrical components in the shaft and in the car need to be protected from water. Next slide, please.

So when it comes to fires in buildings, it's pretty much universally accepted that you don't use the lifts. However, lifts can improve upon the speed and efficiency of that process of how buildings are evacuated. So strategies have been evolving and have evolved. In North America, an occupant evacuation operation, or OEO, was developed following the 9/11 attacks in New York.

And in Europe, the EN 81-76 code specifically developed for evacuation lifts was published just last summer. [00:15:00] Next slide, please.

So OEO is not mandatory under code, and it's the local authority that approves the protocol. Also, OEO is intended as a support to normal evacuation by stairs. Next slide

In terms of evacuation elevator operations, once initiated, OEO monitors the presence of smoke at the lobbies it serves and will prevent an elevator stopping at an affected lobby to avoid putting passengers at risk. Floors where fire is detected, as well as typically the floors above and below, or a number of floors above and below that level, the phase one recall zones, will not be served by an activated OEO elevator, again, to protect passengers.

OEO is an automated system adjusted by inputs from the fire alarm system and monitored from the central alarm control facility or the fire command center.

[00:16:00] Eric Peterson: Next slide.

[00:16:01] Paul Burns: EN 81-76 by comparison, or on the other hand, is intended for the safe evacuation of people with mobility impairments who can't use the stairs, and it's increasingly becoming mandatory where the fire strategy requires evacuation lifts. Although there are alternative strategies, which again emphasizes the importance of coordination with the fire consultant.

Under EN 81-76, there are different considerations for smaller low-rise buildings identified as Class A, compared to larger higher-rise, more complex buildings identified as Class B. EN 81-76 limits the vertical distance between landings or between lobbies to 7 meters. And uniquely EN 81-76 describes three operating modes for evacuation lifts.

So with the illustrations on the screen now, starting on the right-hand side, we have driver-assisted operation, where an assistant is inside the lift car and drives the lift to evacuate people from occupied refuges. In the middle, we have remote-assisted operation, under which the assistant is remote from the lift, not in the lift, but in the same building, and directs the evacuation from there.

And finally, on the left-hand side, we have automatic evacuation operation, under which the lift follows a predefined protocol to automatically carry out the evacuation without an assistant, similar to the protocol for the OEO. So that concludes our overview of codes and standards. Clearly, there's a lot more detail behind each of these, which we're happy to explore and to discuss with you if you have questions and need support.

In the meantime, I hope this has given you some insight into the subject, and now I'll hand over to Eric Peterson

[00:17:58] Eric Peterson: Good day, [00:18:00] everybody. I'm Eric Peterson. I manage the operations in Canada for GUNN Consultants, as Sara said. I'm going to talk to you today about some elevator strategies, some techniques that can be used in tall or supertall buildings. Next slide, please. So first, many of you may be familiar with this technology.

Destination dispatching is what it's called. It started as a technology used in class A office buildings. It's now starting to move into residential towers. Basically, what it entails is the buttons that are typically in the elevator cab, right? You push your up/down hall button, an elevator arrives.

You go in the elevator cab, push your button, telling the system what floor you want to go to. Those buttons are not in the elevator cab, but instead they're in the hall, right? And it's not a button panel, but rather a kiosk, typically at least a touchscreen kiosk, right? So you enter your destination floor.

So what that means is when you arrive in the elevator cab, you can see in the top left photo there are no car buttons. Some of you may see some buttons there. Those are buttons for door-close, door-open alarm button, etc., but no floor call buttons, right? And it assigns people to a specific elevator, whether elevator A, B, C, D, etc., based on their destination floor, where they're going to, right? And as I alluded to a moment ago, the elevators are designated alphanumerically they wouldn't be called elevator one, two, three, etc., which is what we're typically used to. They would be called elevator A, B, C, D, etc., right? So that's so we don't create conflict between the elevator designation and the floor designation, 'cause the floor designations obviously are numbered.

Next slide. So how does this technology work?

So in a conventional dispatching system, and this is when I say conventional, I mean what people are used to seeing, where you walk up to the elevator and there's an up/down hall button in the hall, and an elevator arrives, and there are call buttons inside the elevator cab. So with that type of system there isn't intelligence in terms of what elevator people are assigned to, right?

They simply go to the first elevator that arrives. And the color coding that you see on here is to denote the destination floors people are going to, right? So you can see different colors arriving at the same elevator. So what does that mean? It means you get that, what we call a milk run scenario, right?

You get an elevator that is making a lot of stops, right? 'Cause it has to stop for every destination floor. So what does destination dispatching do? I'll explain that on the next slide. So instead, what it does is it aligns people with an elevator designation that corresponds to their destination floor.

So for example the green, the people designated as green, they might be going to floor ten, say, or maybe even [00:21:00] floors nine and ten, close to one another. But in any case, what it's done is effectively reduced the number of elevator stops that any elevator is going to make on a cycle through the building, 'cause that's basically what your elevator is doing on a given trip.

It's going up into the building sending the people to their floors, reversing direction, and coming down to the main lobby, right? So it's a more intelligent system. This kind of system emphasizes the time to destination rather than the wait time, right? Wait time is something that we're all used to as a measure of the quality of elevator service.

How quickly does my elevator get there? But in fact, what we're really concerned with is time to destination. So that's the wait time plus the transit time in the elevator. You add those two figures together, you get your time to destination. So there would be cases, potentially, with destination dispatching, where you might actually wait longer, slightly longer for an elevator to arrive, but the idea is that it gets you to your floor quicker.

So it's kind of like taking the, I don't know, the subway as opposed to a bus, right, which is making more stops. It's going to make less stops, so it's going to get there quicker. Next slide, please So why would we use destination dispatching? Now What I've been describing in the previous two slides is more akin to scenario three that you're seeing on the slide here.

This is, okay, I've got a large building, I've got many elevators, and I need to organize my passengers better, right? So I have my elevators making less stops. So that is definitely a scenario where you would use it. High traffic, high number of floors. How do I organize my people better? But there are actually two other scenarios where you might not guess that you would use it, right?

So scenario one, multiple user groups. So what I mean by that is, let's say, for example that on the far left, I've got this scenario one tower, and in the brown or the peach section of the buildings, let's say, for example, that's a hotel, and above it in blue is residential. Now, traditionally what we would do is we would have a dedicated group to serve the hotel, say a three-car group, for example, and maybe a three or four-car group to serve the high-rise residential.

And by doing so, I separate my user groups, right? I don't have my hotel passengers or my residential passengers in the same elevator, which is what I want, right? But what if, instead of having two separate groups of elevators, we used one group of elevators serving all floors, and we used the dispatching of the elevators to separate our traffic?

You can do that with destination dispatching. You can have it knows basic—for example, like who is in the elevator cab. If there's a residential passenger in an elevator cab, it could be programmed so that it would not respond to a call from a hotel passenger, and vice versa, right? So we use the logic of the elevators to separate our traffic.

And the benefit of that is, perhaps that scenario I just described to have a three-car low-rise and a four-car high-rise, that's seven elevators. [00:24:00] What if I could serve this entire building with, say, five or six elevators? I'm reducing my elevator count overall and achieving the same end goal, right?

When else might you use it? Scenario two: different floors served. So what we're representing there in that green tower is this is a five-car elevator group, right? And on the left, cars one, two, and three have a gap where they don't serve, and elevators four and five near the top of the building, they don't serve there.

So if you are at the main lobby, say, for example, and you need to call the elevator to, say, the top floor of the building, right? You need elevators A, B, or C, one of the first three elevators. You cannot be dispatched to elevator D or E, right? Because it doesn't serve that level. So the destination dispatch, it can handle that.

So if you have any kind of building where not all the elevators are not serving the same levels, we see this often in office buildings with overhead restrictions where you might have an elevator group that serves nearly to the top of the building, but then, say, only a portion of the elevators serve the last few floors, right?

Because of the overhead restrictions. So in that kind of scenario, you would want to use destination dispatching so that you can be intelligent. Otherwise, you're just taking a chance that you'll get the right elevator. Next slide

Another technology that can be used, stacked cabs. We don't see this very often, but stacked cabs is basically one cab coupled to the other, directly coupled. Okay? They are independent of one another independent physically speaking, but they are interconnected. They do not operate independently of one another.

But what you require for this technology at the bottom floor is you require two access floors, right? You require the bottom-most entry floor and then the floor above that to get into the upper cab, right? It does increase the overall capacity that you can move through the elevator system. You can see this example in Montreal where this was used, eight low-rise elevators, eight high-rise elevators, all operating at twelve hundred feet per minute.

And yeah, they were all stacked cabs. So this was basically a strategy to increase the handling capacity of the elevator system. Now, there are some inefficiencies built into this. You can imagine that, for example, if you're in the upper portion of the elevator cab and the lower portion has to stop to answer, the elevator has to stop to answer their call their doors are going to open, yours are not.

So you're sitting around waiting while that call is answered. So that introduces some inefficiency, but it does overall increase the handling capacity of the system. Next slide. Twin, TKE twin, which is kind of one step ahead of what I just talked about with stacked cab. So this is also two elevators in the same hoistway, but now they're independent, believe it or not.

They operate off two entirely separate drive machines, and they can move entirely separate from one another. So the upper elevator cab can move and the elevator—the lower elevator cab can be stationary. Now, the lower elevator [00:27:00] cab can't bypass the upper elevator cab. It has to always be below the upper cab, but it does increase the efficiency.

These installations exist in Europe, the U.S., and Asia. There are none in Canada yet, but eventually I'm sure there will be a project where this technology is used. Next slide. This graphic illustrates how the system works. On the left is a conventional arrangement with five independent elevator hoistways, requiring the footprint of five hoistways.

On the right, shown in orange, is a twin configuration. This is only an example, but it provides five elevator cabs within three hoistways, reducing the footprint from five hoistways to three. That is the primary benefit of the twin system. However, it comes at a significant cost premium.

This technology is not inexpensive; it will cost more than installing five independent elevators. However, given the value of leasable floor space, the investment may be worthwhile. Elevator hoistways consume valuable floor area and can significantly affect project economics.

Next slide.

Now let's move on to technologies used in tall and supertall buildings. A sky lobby is one strategy used from time to time. The diagram here shows a conventional building, with the blue, green, and pink sections representing the low-, mid-, and high-rise elevator banks.

The example shows a five-car low-rise bank, a five-car mid-rise bank, and a five-car high-rise bank. The lower portion of the building is not served by the mid-rise elevators, while roughly the bottom two-thirds is not served by the high-rise elevators. Those elevators bypass those floors in what is effectively an express zone.

That is the traditional configuration. We modeled a sample scenario to demonstrate the time to destination for a passenger traveling to a floor in the high-rise portion of the building. Using our assumptions, the estimated time to destination was 100 seconds, which is generally considered acceptable.

Next slide. What if we use a sky lobby? What does that mean? This represents a similar building, except that now our high-rise elevators—the same five-car high-rise bank—are stacked on top of the mid-rise bank. But when you do that, of course, you cannot bring the high-rise elevators down to the main lobby.

So how do you get to that sky lobby above the mid-rise bank? You use shuttle elevators. We can use fewer shuttle elevators in this scenario because they effectively have only two stops. [00:30:00] That makes the system very efficient, so you don't need as many elevators.

We can reduce that five-car bank—this is just an example—down to two cars. All of a sudden, our footprint is no longer fifteen hoistways; it is twelve hoistways. It does have a minor impact on time to destination. What we modeled here was a high-rise passenger starting at the main lobby.

I push the button for the shuttle and wait for it. It arrives, and I travel up to the sky lobby. I walk over to the high-rise bank, push the button, repeat the same process, and then arrive at my floor. What does that mean? Yes, there was a minor impact, but it was not significant. It is still in the same order of magnitude.

In this case, we came up with 105 seconds. If it is designed correctly, you can get elevator service that is very comparable to conventional dispatching while reducing the number of elevator hoistways. Moving on to the next slide: jump elevators.

I don't know how many of you are familiar with what we call jump elevators. This is a construction technology, not a technology used in the finished building. Everyone is familiar with construction hoists that run on the outside of a building. They are typically very slow—say, 100 to 125 feet per minute—rack-and-pinion, noisy, and disruptive to work on the building's exterior.

Impacts your ability to finish the outside of the building. But what if you could use the elevator hoistways? Everybody's familiar, I'm sure, if they've done a construction project. Eventually, the elevators in the interior of the building are going to be finished at some point during construction.

But typically, you have to wait quite a while for those elevators to be used for construction use. With a jump elevator, we can do that from day one effectively, right? So we install what we call a jump elevator within the elevator hoistway. We can, in some cases, avoid the construction hoist on the outside of the building entirely.

These elevators are much faster—700 or 800 feet per minute, for example. You're protected from the elements, and you can move construction workers up and down through the building much more quickly. Where does the name jump elevator come from? We call them that because we jump them up. Let's say, for example, your building will reach level forty, construction is currently at level ten, and the elevators serve through level nine. You wait until construction reaches, say, level fifteen, and then hoist the elevator up to the next position.

You might move it up to level fourteen. It is recertified, and then you use the elevator to travel to that new level. You can work with two jump elevators, for example, and move them in tandem. You do not have to jump both at the same time.

So that's a technology that we've seen used, we've used on some of our projects, and [00:33:00] it can be an effective way to increase your efficiency on construction. Again, with all these things, it comes at a cost premium, right? It doesn't come cheap. But it increases your efficiency and can ultimately save you money in many cases.

Next slide. And with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Michael Muñoz to talk to you about some design issues that we see come up in new construction.

[00:33:25] Michael Muñoz: Sure. Thank you, Eric. So we're here today talking specifically about tall and supertall buildings, and as buildings grow in height, there are some design considerations that on shorter buildings you wouldn't have to think about.

We want to give everyone a general overview of some of the phenomena and concerns that come with taller buildings. Next slide, please.

Inherently, the first one that comes to mind is that there's an effective travel limitation on a conventional elevator system, right? As a building gets taller, if you want the same elevator to serve from the ground to the top floor, there are steel ropes that are connecting the cab and the counterweight, and as the building gets taller, those steel ropes get longer, and all of that converts to the total weight of the ropes.

And all of those ropes hang from a machine that's all the way at the top of the elevator shaft, right? And so you can imagine that an elevator machine that's actually moving the car up and down, there's going to be a physical limitation on how big that machine is, the largest available machine commercially available, and then also there's going to be a maximum load that given machine can handle.

The current industry standard uses steel ropes for elevator suspension. Roughly 1,600 feet is where that technology reaches its limit, although it varies. A bigger, heavier cab may have a shorter maximum rise than a smaller, lighter cab because it is all about the system's total mass.

When you think about some buildings that are taller than 1,600 feet and may have an observation deck at the top, what do we do? With conventional steel ropes, you need to create a transfer: run the first 1,600 feet up, have passengers exit the elevator, cross what is effectively a sky lobby comparable to what Eric just described, and transfer to another elevator for the remaining part of the building.

What do we do about that? It depends. Next slide, please. One technology, developed by the OEM KONE, is called UltraRope. They said, "Instead of using steel ropes, with the weight concern we just discussed, let's use an [00:36:00] alternative material: carbon fiber coated in a proprietary polymer."

The ropes are effectively carbon fiber and significantly lighter than steel. That weight reduction allows a much longer rope before reaching the maximum capability of a machine. What does that do? It allows travel distances of nearly 1,000 meters, or 3,300 feet—almost double those of a conventional steel rope.

I bring this up because, again, there are perhaps 256 buildings currently classified as supertall. It is worth noting that this technology may also make sense for shorter buildings from an energy-efficiency standpoint.

If you're looking to make a very green building, the reduced mass, total mass of the system that you're moving results in a lower power consumption. So while this was designed for these one-off supertall buildings, there are additional applications where it could make sense. Again, as with all new technology, it does come at a premium.

But for every project, there may be a cost analysis to see where this does or doesn't make sense. But here, we just want you to be aware that the technology is out there. Next.

Sway mitigation. As a building gets taller, it tends to do a lot more of this, right? The wind blows, the building sways. And remembering that the elevator shafts go vertically through the building, that means effectively the elevator shafts are also moving. And then you remember that we effectively have a weight hanging from a steel cable, right?

What happens when the building is swaying and there is an elevator in it? The ropes will also tend to sway, and this can become a major concern if the natural frequency of the elevator system aligns with the natural frequency of the building's movement. When that happens, the amplitude of the elevator components' movement continues to grow until the ropes may make contact with other elevator components or even the hoistway walls. The design team—particularly the structural engineer—needs to be aware of this when designing a tall building.

There are other concerns besides elevators, but on a project of this nature, you want to insist that a wind-tunnel study be performed early in concept design. Models of the proposed concepts are produced and tested in a wind tunnel with very high-resolution cameras. The footage can be slowed down to model the building movement that will occur in the real world once it is built.

All those movements can be recorded and studied in detail to understand how they will affect the elevator system. Next, please. All the OEMs [00:39:00] provide similar engineering. This is just a sample from a project Otis worked on.

But what you're seeing here on the right side is a diagram that represents every floor of the building, with colors showing where the building's movement impacts the elevator system and creates enough movement that the elevator system would be compromised in operation. And so at the bottom of the slide, what you're seeing is an elevator diagram.

The blue circle represents movement that's safe, right? The ropes and other components. The ropes can move in and out of this circle without causing any operational concerns. The yellow circle represents the first obstruction point, right? So just enough movement that the elevator ropes can make contact with something other than air.

In this diagram, that obstruction would be the landing door. The red circle represents thirty-three percent more movement than the initial-contact movement. In that extreme scenario, the car ropes could contact the counterweight behind the elevator, possibly snag on the rails, and strike the side and rear walls of the hoistway. All this is to say that this level of analysis is required to understand how the proposed elevator system will respond to windy-day conditions.

And then with that, once the worst-case scenario is understood, mitigation techniques can be put in place, such as parking the elevators at floors or setting a maximum parking time at floors that would align with the building's natural frequency, right? So maybe during a storm, an elevator can only park at certain floors for no more than fifteen seconds before needing to move.

It could be reducing the speed of the elevators so that as the ropes are swaying, they're moving at a slower speed. You can think of that as like a bandsaw, right? The quicker it's moving and making contact, the more damage it will do. And so if you can slow down the operation, and understand that the ropes are still going to move, but at a slower speed, if they make slight contact, less damage will occur to the elevator system.

Or in severe cases, there may be just such an extreme wind condition that the programming parameters are set to recognize there is no safe operation during this period. The elevators will go somewhere safe, park to make sure no passengers are in there while this is happening, and then wait until wind-monitoring devices report to the elevator control system that the sway has been reduced and the elevators are again safe to operate, right?

This is something to be aware of in tall buildings, and, as I said, the wind-tunnel study is a very important first step. Next, please. The piston effect is aptly named. You can think of an elevator as a piston inside the cylinder of a car engine. As it moves up and down, it compresses the volume of air above or below it, depending on the direction of travel. [00:42:00]

As that happens, that higher pressure air is pushed through doors as it passes landings. This can often result in audible whistling and door panels popping in and out. And this, of course, becomes more pronounced as the elevators move at a higher speed, which of course higher speeds come with taller buildings, right?

The biggest issue here is when you have a single elevator in a hoistway without elevators to the left or right in a common shaft, because that gives very little pathway for air to be dispersed as an elevator moves and that exacerbates this piston effect. Next, please. So what we want to do is try to avoid single car hoistways wherever possible.

You could reduce the pressure that's created by reducing the speed of the elevator. But from a performance standpoint, people do have an expectation of total time to destination and average waiting time. Reducing the speed may not be viable in a class A commercial office building if it means that elevator performance no longer meets current market expectations for leasing.

You can increase the size of hoistways to allow for more free space for the air to flow as the elevator moves. But as Eric alluded to, many projects, or all projects, area is king. It translates directly to the leasable area. The more space the elevators take, the less rentable or sellable space, right?

And so that's usually a hard negotiation to make. And then the last resort would be if you have no other avenue and you have a single-shaft elevator, you have to start looking at alternate ways to relieve that air pressure. And on the next slide we'll look at a couple of diagrams that demonstrate how you might achieve that.

These are both projects in Canada. On the left side, you can see that we have a single elevator on the same side of the core as a staircase and opposite another single elevator. And both of those in their own right would have piston effect concerns. What we're doing here is connecting the two opposite elevator shafts with a horizontal duct.

What that does is allow air to cross between the hoistways. Let's say the elevator on the left is moving up. As it pushes air above it, the air can cross into the free space of the hoistway across the hallway, mitigating the piston effect. Is this something you want to establish as the basis of design without first discussing alternative core arrangements?

Absolutely not. This does require a significant amount of coordination with your MEP and HVAC. Each and every one of these horizontal connections, remembering that the elevators opposite each other are [00:45:00] separate rated, fire-rated hoistways. These horizontal connections would still need a fire damper so that in the event of a smoke condition, each elevator hoistway remains independent and does not allow for the spread of fire or smoke from one to the other, right?

Similar condition on the right side, but instead of going across a hallway, two elevators back to back, you create an opening in the shear wall between the two to allow air to pass. But again, this would also require a fused damper to separate the shafts in smoke conditions. Next, please. And lastly today, we'll talk about the stack effect.

As buildings get taller and when you deal with variation of temperature inside the building and outside the building, you create a condition where the building and namely the elevator shafts or the vertical connection through the building begin to act as a chimney or a smokestack, hence the name stack effect.

We have diagrams kind of showing a winter and a summer condition here, right? I will say that we'll focus on the winter condition because it tends to be the more pronounced impact on buildings. If you think of somewhere that has the winter season and inside of the building they've got heating to keep everyone comfortable, you've essentially created a huge temperature variation between the outdoors and the indoors.

The hot air is rising, similar to the concept everyone knows, a hot air balloon. That hot air that's being warmed by HVAC is getting pushed up the elevator shafts, and that's creating a draw. And when you do that the negative pressure that's created behind that, and when you open the doors to let people in the main lobby of the building, the air wants to rush in to fill that vacuum, and it just continues to feed the cycle of air moving up the elevator hoistways.

This is also a huge problem with loading docks 'cause they're typically unconditioned space. And so you've got a massive volume where trucks are able to pull in and park unconditioned. And if that space is not effectively separated from creating an air pathway to the elevator shafts, it will feed the stack effect constantly, right?

What do we notice throughout the building when there is a stack-effect issue? You will hear air whistling as it moves up the hoistway. In extreme cases, the pressure differential may be so great that when the elevator doors open and then try to close, they cannot complete the final half-inch or quarter-inch of travel because the air is moving at such high velocity.

And so it can become an issue where the elevators effectively will shut down, right? So now you've impacted the users of the building significantly here. Next slide, please. Mitigation is not purely an elevator issue, it's a design issue for the entire building. You can compartmentalize the building and interrupt the vertical pathways by [00:48:00] having an elevator that doesn't run the entire height of the building, but maybe operationally that doesn't make sense.

You can try to use only revolving doors at the front of the building, rather than swing doors that may remain open and allow more air to rush in and travel up the elevator shaft. The point is that the real way to mitigate this is not through the elevator system; it is through the overall building design.

And that's why we want to bring it to your attention that it's something to focus on early on in a project to ensure that there are not issues at the end. And if you do end up with a condition on the elevator side, what can we do? We can install high-horsepower door operators. We can install high torque door closers at every landing to ensure that final bit of door close occurs, but that's a repeated cost at every landing of the building, and it adds up, right?

That is a summary of some of the issues that come with tall buildings. The takeaway is that you need to think about all of them very early in the design process. Next.

That brings us to the end of the presentation. This is the contact information for continuing education credits in the U. S. and Canada. We know that all of you have different continuing education bodies, but the relevant information is here. Sara, where does that take us next?

[00:49:29] Sara Korolevich: Thank you very much, Michael. Yeah, exactly. Continuing education. We are going to share these slides in your emails and the recording, so you'll have this information. And we're also going to put it in the chat, so if you want to just click on the link through the chat, that works too. For our design services, just want to remind everyone, we are available for consultation.

You can contact one of our experts, our teams around the world. These are the types of design services that we provide through VDA, Gunn, and D2E, and our global teams. We do have a quick poll. If you want us to reach out to you just to make it easy, we can certainly email you if we can get that poll launched.

Do you want VDA to reach out to you? Please just click yes here. And we'll definitely do that, and in one second, I'm going to share the information. Actually, I can click over. There you go. If you'd like to reach out to any one of our experts, you can go to that webpage, our family of brands, all the different offices that we have.

Contact information for Michael, Eric, and Paul as well, and we're excited to get to the live Q&A. I do see some questions if I can just remind our speakers to probably remain unmuted; that will be easiest. [00:51:00] That way you can jump in and respond to some of these questions. So let's get going. Okay, we have one question regarding jump elevators.

What are the cost benefits for this application when comparing the use of the outside hoist option? Are the OEMs the only companies that offer this technology? Is the jump system self-climbing when the core or building structure moves ahead?

[00:51:30] Eric Peterson: I can take that one. Eric here.

There are a few questions embedded in there. How does it create efficiency compared with the alternative? Jump elevators are significantly faster, and you can have more lifts than you would on the outside of the building. Basically, they move workers through the building more quickly and at a higher rate.

That is how they create efficiency and save money. Let's pick a number: it might cost a million dollars per elevator to install this kind of technology. It does not come cheap, but it benefits you by moving people more quickly and shortening the construction schedule.

That is the idea: shortening your construction schedule. Can it self-climb? Yes, depending on the technology. Otis, for example, has technology that essentially climbs by itself. There is some intervention from mechanics; it cannot do everything on its own.

Okay. They do have that technology. And can you remind me, Sara, was there something else?

[00:52:32] Sara Korolevich: No, I think you caught them all.

[00:52:34] Eric Peterson: Okay, good.

[00:52:35] Sara Korolevich: Thank you. I'd—

[00:52:36] Paul Burns: I would just add—

[00:52:36] Eric Peterson: I don't know whether you want to add to that.

[00:52:38] Paul Burns: Yes, Eric. I was just going to say that I completely agree with everything you've said.

One other significant advantage, particularly in the far Northern or Southern Hemisphere where weather is an issue, is that having jump elevators inside the building, rather than hoists and mast climbers on the exterior, means fewer days lost to weather because everything happens inside the building and is protected.

The scheduling advantage is that you do not lose those days to inclement weather.

[00:53:12] Eric Peterson: You'd think being from Canada, I would've highlighted that first, right? But I didn't. Yeah, no, good point. Excellent point.

[00:53:16] Paul Burns: The other thing to add is your point about climbing. Again, I completely agree. It means there must be coordination among the elevator supplier, the subcontractor, and those responsible for the construction and design of the hoistways, because the hoistways need recesses for the steel beams used by the elevator system as it climbs.

You cannot decide that you want jump elevators late in the process, once hoistway construction has started. They require that level of coordination.

[00:53:48] Eric Peterson: Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:53:51] Sara Korolevich: Thank you. All right. Next question. This one has a lot of acronyms. The [00:54:00] AWT for sky lobby elevators. AWT is generally defined by CIBSE requirements.

[00:54:09] Sara Korolevich: Here, shuttle AWT plus main lift AWT will be higher than the AWT described by CIBSE Guide D. So how do we define that the strategy is good and not going to be higher AWT or queue for passengers in the lobby, particularly during start of office or lunchtime?

[00:54:33] Eric Peterson: So we don't put people to sleep, AWT means average wait time, and the CIBSE Guide D defines what is considered an acceptable wait time.

CIBSE is what the question refers to. Every case is unique. I offered an example for demonstration purposes, but every situation is affected by how many floors you serve, how many people occupy those floors, and when peak traffic occurs.

These are all things that you would want to assess. And look, with any of these analyses, like it could be that, for example, it, there's a small penalty to be paid by a certain portion of the people in the building. But, when we're assessing elevator systems, we want to look... Yes, we don't want any one group to be unnecessarily penalized, but you are looking at a global view of this, looking at the entire building, and how do we make the entire building function better, right?

[00:55:40] Michael Muñoz: I would add to that, Eric, that the way we've seen this approached is this, right? Who is ultimately going to take space in the building? And is this transfer experience something that would be palatable or acceptable?

[00:55:54] Eric Peterson: Good point.

[00:55:55] Michael Muñoz: And if the answer is yes, what we've seen design teams do is to make the transfer a pleasant experience.

So you tell the high-rise tenant that you're going to have your own lobby at the top of the building, and when you get out of these shuttle elevators, it's going to have all these great amenities. It's going to have coffee, it's going to have food, and it's going to be beautifully finished. And all of your employees are going to be happy to get up on a shuttle elevator, get out, congregate in the morning, and then move over to their local elevators, right?

You almost create a building within a building. Rather than looking at it as pure arithmetic—in Eric's example, it went from 100 seconds to 105 seconds—design teams try to present it as a pleasant experience and therefore less of a concern. We understand the concern about meeting CIBSE guidance. If someone peer-reviews a building design that uses a sky lobby, it becomes a little grayer, but it is about the end-user experience and whether the developer can market that experience.

[00:57:00] Paul Burns: Yeah, I think that's a really good point, and it's about how you sell it to the occupants and how you sell it to the tenants.

So in very tall buildings that are zoned, so we have these kind of low-rise, high-rise elements in the elevators, or we have a sky lobby as described, as the questioner described. Effectively, you're putting one building directly on top of another in order to save core space and make the building viable.

So if you're doing that, then it's a question of talking to the developer and the tenants, the occupants, and say, "Okay, your building is up here. You start at level 50," or whatever it happens to be. Your journey to your building includes that shuttle lift or that sky lobby element. And then, as Michael very eloquently put it, sell the fact that we've got this incredible lobby and that's where your average waiting time starts from.

Although the questioner was talking about average waiting time, what we are trying to minimize is the average time to destination, or total journey time. We want to start measuring it from their specific lobby in that building-on-top-of-a-building concept. But it requires a conversation with the developer and tenant to determine what is important to them.

[00:58:07] Sara Korolevich: Okay, thank you. We are over time, but I do have a couple more questions in here if people want to continue hanging out and listening. We have a question, it's a follow-up question. What elevator speeds are typically available in the market for high-speed elevators?

[00:58:24] Michael Muñoz: I can take the first stab at that one.

As far as a maximum, they can go very high. Shanghai Tower's observation deck is 18 meters per second or 3,600 feet per minute, if I'm not mistaken. Very high speed. With that comes specialization of cabin pressurization. It actually travels slower in the down direction to be sensitive to people's ears and popping of ears because of change in pressure.

What's more typical is you would cap a speed around 10 meters per second or 2,000 feet per minute. Those are more commercially available speeds from OEM standard product offering. Those super high speeds are all custom-engineered solutions. I hope that answers the question.

[00:59:09] Sara Korolevich: Another question: How often are you seeing occupant evacuation operation used? Is it gaining traction? What are the primary use cases, pros, and cons?

[00:59:24] Michael Muñoz: Yes. The major benefit is that the IBC allows a reduction in the number of egress staircases in buildings over 420 feet tall if you provide enough evacuation elevators to equal the capacity of that third egress stairway.

So there is a huge motivation from developers to recapture that area because it's typically at the top of the building, right? And the third stair is all the way up, and [01:00:00] that's more leasable area. So there's a huge financial incentive to make it work. What I will say is I've seen many schemes where it's looked at, and then you get into the local acceptance.

And I don't mean by the authority having jurisdiction. If it's in the code, they'll accept it. What I mean is the end users and the acceptance of not having that additional staircase. So for example, OEO as noted, was created after the 9/11 attacks, and in a market like New York City, it's a really hard sell to convince people that we're going to get by with less egress stairways, regardless of the elevators, right?

And so I have many projects in New York where we've gone through what it would mean and how much savings it would be and how much square footage that generates to sell. But at the end of the day, I have seen very few projects, for example, in New York, that have decided to go that route. A few projects on the West Coast, San Francisco have used this that I'm aware of.

Again, the real incentive begins at 420 feet in height, which already narrows the number of buildings that benefit. From there, it is a conversation. So, after that long-winded answer, I would say I see it implemented in only a very small percentage of projects.

[01:01:18] Paul Burns: To give the European perspective—sorry, Eric, were you going to say something?

[01:01:22] Eric Peterson: No, I was going to ask—

[01:01:22] Paul Burns: You were going to ask for my perspective.

[01:01:24] Eric Peterson: Yeah.

[01:01:24] Paul Burns: To give the European perspective, in the U. K. we had a real tragedy called the Grenfell Tower fire some years ago, and that changed everything.

It was a game changer for building codes and regulations in the U. K. and London, and it drove a root-and-branch review of building construction, stair cores, firefighters' lift cores, escape stair cores, and so on. In parallel was the development of EN 81-76, which I referenced in the code section. It is a code specifically for evacuation elevators, or evacuation lifts.

As I said in the presentation, that is specifically for people with mobility impairments who cannot use stairs, rather than for everybody. I think occupant evacuation operation is leading the world in innovation by suggesting that elevators can be used in an emergency to evacuate everybody.

We have one building in London, 22 Bishopsgate, that has an occupant evacuation operation-style evacuation system using lifts because it is a very tall building. In general, EN 81-76 is now in place in Europe, so we have an evacuation elevator code. In the U. K., we require a secondary escape stair in most buildings, and a secondary firefighters' lift core includes a stair, a lift, and protected lobbies.

The industry is moving in that direction. But, as I said, it is for people who cannot use stairs, whereas occupant evacuation operation is [01:03:00] intended more broadly for everybody.

[01:03:01] Sara Korolevich: Okay. Thank you. One last question and then we'll wrap up. What acceleration and jerk values are normally used or considered for high-speed elevators?

[01:03:12] Michael Muñoz: Yes, so that comes down to human factors, right? There's only so much acceleration that the human body's going to be comfortable taking.

Typically, you would see acceleration around 2 meters per second squared. In very specialized applications, it may be pushed to 2.5 meters per second squared. Jerk is even more perceptible than acceleration, so you typically would not see it exceed 3.0 meters per second cubed.

 

[01:03:45] Paul Burns: Yes, I agree, and I think there are regional variations as well. In Europe, we tend to think we need a gentler ride. We tend to think North Americans like a fairly aggressive ride and focus on getting to the destination.

We would typically use values slightly lower than what you described, Michael. There are regional requirements, and it comes down to what is acceptable in the area where you happen to be.

[01:04:17] Sara Korolevich: And with that, I want to thank everyone for joining us today. Thank you to our presenters for this information. And again, we'll send out the recording and the slides, so you'll have those in your inbox. Thank you, everyone.

[01:04:34] Eric Peterson: Thank you.

[01:04:35] Paul Burns: Thank you.

[01:04:35] Eric Peterson: Good day, everybody.