Webinar

[00:00:00] Tommy Tusinac: Hey, everybody. Welcome to VDA's webinar, Navigating Water Damage. Good morning, good afternoon, wherever you may be joining in from. We appreciate you attending this. We have a good webinar planned for you guys, and two great presenters. So give us just a few moments. We'll let some other people trickle in.

People may be getting off meetings and calls, so we'll be with you in just a moment, and we'll get this thing started

In the meantime, I'm going to shoot us over to this slide. These are our two presenters. As you can see below them, they have a QR code. If you would like to, feel free to scan that. It'll load up all their personal information right onto your mobile device. If you think that you may have a question that's not great to be answered during the webinar or maybe a little too long, or you just would rather take it offline, feel free to scan them.

Steve and David are expecting some outreach afterwards, so feel free to scan that in the meantime, and we'll be right with you

All right, so we're going to get going. So the agenda today, we have a brief why VDA, a little bit about us. Then we're going to get into water damage the first steps you would take to remediate that water damage. We're going to talk about damage and insurance claim review. We're going to go over the repair process and some risk prevention.

So why VDA? We were established in 1980. We have roughly 200 consultants and inspectors and an approximate 500 employees globally. So as you can see from our story, in 1980, we were founded by John Van Deusen. And we've seen some growth over the past couple years, most notably the past five, where we've had some recent acquisitions for consulting companies and inspection companies.

In 2024 our acquisitions took us into that North America, and then 2025 we really went global. I'm going to drop a quick poll into the chat. It's a quick yes or no question and we encourage you all to participate, and then once we are done here, we will get right into the presentation.

So we're seeing some answers coming through. It looks like about 80 of you unfortunately have experienced water damage. Look at us. So with that I'm going to lead us into the presentation. Steve Broom is going to take over. So Steve.

[00:03:51] Steve Broom: Guys, I appreciate you guys joining us today. Kinda like with Tommy.

Tommy, great job on the introduction about VDA and who we are. Once again, my name's Steve Broom, and I'm going to kind of run through part of this. I'm excited to be doing this with Dave Vance as well. Together we'll be able to kind of answer your questions and kind of navigate through this process. So like we said today, this is kind of going through the process of water damage.

What to be thinking about, how do we kind of navigate the process. So we're going to kind of run through a scenario that occurred at one of the properties that, that we work with. As you can see here, obviously this was going to be... I believe this was a pipe burst that went on the- one of the upper floors.

This is a hydraulic elevator unit. Obviously we're going to talk about traction and hydraulic, but on this particular scenario it was a pipe burst. All the water wants to flow to the path of least resistance to go down. And so in this situation it kind of came through the carpet and went down over into the elevator hoistway.

Now the problem that we ran into is, and this is critical for property managers, facility managers, people running facilities, let's make sure your security guards, your restoration company, any of your employees are not squeegeeing the water down the hoistway. As you can see here, a lot of water went down this hoistway.

You can see the concrete has already absorbed that much water, showing that much. So this was quite a bit. It could've been prevented if they wouldn't have pushed as much down, but in this situation with a pipe burst, obviously they did everything they could to try to remedy it. We suggest trying to block that area, try to prevent any more water going down that area.

Like we said on this one, you can see where it came into the hoistway, came down on top of the door tracks for the hoistway doors. Tommy. And then ended up getting onto the elevator car top. As you can see how far out it splattered you can see the back of the car top. We're looking down upon it.

You can see all the way almost to the edge that water reached out there. So all those components where water touches is in jeopardy of being compromised or damaged. So what we want to do is make sure that we get that car out of the water as quickly as possible. So Tommy, on the next one. So as here, it went from the car top down into the actual elevator cab.

You can see you've got your ceiling that's going to be affected, and we're going to show a photo of that here in a little bit. You've got your walls that can be affected with the laminates, but more importantly, on the front side of the elevator, you've got your car operating panels, that's where all of your electrical components are.

You've got your ceiling there that also has electrical components. After it went through the car top, went through the cab, now it all ended up down in the elevator pit. So if you haven't seen a pit, usually there's about four to five feet that go below this. And so you can th- see how many or how much has been damaged on this.

This was a twin telescoping jack, so that's the reason why you're not seeing the jack in the middle, but this is a hydraulic unit, and how much that water has been filled up. Ideally, in this situation, you've got oil in that water. You don't know what type of water that was in the oil line. So when you're removing this water, one of the things we want to make sure of is that we're thinking about how we're going to dispose of this.

It's got to be disposed of either by you, your elevator contractor, or a third party. Make sure we're disposing of this properly so you don't get in any trouble with the EPA or anything of that nature. So moving to the next slide, I'm going to hand it over to David

[00:07:21] David Vance: Good morning, everybody. Here we have some pictures of some mechanical equipment that was obviously affected by the water.

On the left here we've got a set of roller guides. These have springs, bearings, and lubricated bushings. These are all important components to ride quality, as well as they can have effects on other systems, door components and positioning systems. So if they're not functioning properly, this can cause other systems to malfunction.

On the right side is components related to the mechanical safeties on the elevator. This corrosion here once it sets in can affect the safety's ability to operate freely stop the elevator within acceptable tolerances, and create further damage to equipment if it's not identified in future full load testing.

This corrosion obviously doesn't present itself immediately. It takes time for this kind of stuff to set in after it gets wet. And these are good examples of identifying components early that could have future negative effects and may not be covered in the future if they are not identified.

Next slide, Tommy. Here we have electrical components. Looks like a printed circuit board from a door operator, so this is the top of the car. The second picture is down inside of the cab where Steve had mentioned the car operating panel. So you can see the water that got in there. You've got buttons, harnesses fixtures, and all types of other components.

And then the third photo is of the terminal strip inside the car operating panel as well. You can see the corrosion on that. All of these items would need to be replaced, so opening covers, panels, and other equipment during the initial survey is critical when we're looking at these things.

Next slide, Tommy. So here this is inside the cab. These are your interior cab panels. The first picture is the laminate on top of the backing is coming apart, delaminating based on water getting behind those panels. So initially may not be easy to see, but you can see the panel separating because the glue is compromised.

In the second photo this is your transition between your threshold and your cab flooring. You can see there where the water got under. It affects the substrate, and now that carpet is starting to come up and creating a hazard as well. And then in your third picture here, this is where the water intrusion from the car top got into the cab.

And all of these items would need to be repaired or replaced as well.

[00:09:48] Tommy Tusinac: I did want to jump in. I forgot to mention in the beginning we do have a Q&A section, so if you have any questions that you would addressed at the end of the presentation, feel free to drop them in there. We encourage as many questions as you may have.

[00:10:01] Steve Broom: Yeah, and Tommy, I want to expand on that. Even Paul brought this up in the chat section. He said "Many times it's not our maintenance team that's pushing it down the hoist way, but it's the fire department." So obviously if you have engineers on site, security guards on site and you see the fire department or anybody pushing that water towards the door seals trying to push it down into the hoist way, please let 'em know that this is causing more damage.

Let's find a way to be able to, extract the water another way all right, so that leads us into first steps. So what do we do first? Once we find out about it, first thing we want to do is try to get the elevator to the highest point and lock it off. Obviously we're hoping that the flood, water damage, whatever it is happening below the elevator, and we can send the elevator up to the top floor.

Once we get it to the top floor, what we want to do is put it on independent service, turn the stop switch on, something to prevent that elevator from running and potentially causing more damage to the car and possibly more cost. Obviously, if the flood or water damage occurs above the car if it will not run up, you're stuck in the water, but obviously try to get that elevator up above the water as quickly as possible.

We want to try to prevent as much damage from occurring as we can. There's also so many different components that are on top of an elevator car on the sides, in the doors, so we want to just make sure we try to get everything away from the water as quickly as possible. Once we do that, we want to identify are there any safety concerns?

Is there anything going on that we need to be worrying about from an electrical standpoint, from y- just a slip and fall? How are we addressing the area to make sure we're creating a safe environment for, number one, for the restoration teams, for your employees the fire department or whoever's on site?

And with this, if you do identify any safety concerns, our recommendation, get to that machine room, turn the main line off. Get it out of the way so there's no electrical going actually to that elevator. So after you get through with that phase, we've got a safe environment, we've ran the elevator up. Now we want to make sure we're documenting as much as possible.

And what I mean by that is what caused the damage, what floors were affected, how many floors were affected? Was there any other additional information that needs to be added to that? And while you're doing that, obviously you can't really get into the affected areas in the hoist way, but take as many pictures as possible.

Obviously the next step is going to be reach out to your elevator contractor. We want to get them out as quickly as possible to start assessing the damage. Also being able to see what we need to do if we've got a bank of elevators or if it's just a single elevator, where can we see to get the elevators back up operational while we try to get, in a safe way, while we try to get our repair proposals put together to identify what was compromised by the water.

So getting the elevator company out there. Now, once your elevator company is on site, I would recommend that they're taking photos as well. And if they're not, ask them to take more photos. If you're on site with the elevator company, in a safe way take as many photos, have them open the doors safely, but take photos wherever you can.

You want as much documentation as possible. After the elevator company has come out and assessed and either got some elevators back in service or given you an idea, what we want to do is make sure we, ... Or better yet, before we do that, if the elevator company does replace something or changes something right then and there, let's make sure we save those affected or damaged or compromised components.

Once you get the insurance company involved, they're probably going to want to see what's been affected, what's damaged. The worst-case scenario is you throw something out that they need to see or need to witness and not be reimbursed. So we want to make sure that we're identifying all those items that are compromised and saving it until the insurance company is completely through with this project and you've been paid.

So obviously contact the insurance provider if necessary. If this is a large enough claim you're going to want to get your insurance company involved. If it, if you're not going to go through insurance be identifying as much as you possibly can. I would still hold the parts in case you've got a third party that wants to look like them, a consulting firm of some sort to be able to take a look at those and be able to diagnose, yes, we see that as compromised as well.

And then once the elevator company says, "Hey, we've looked at everything. Here is where we're at," try to get that repair proposal from them as soon as possible. And it's got to be a clear scope of work. Ideally, if I'm involved, I want the scope of work and I want those line items of certain components that are being addressed.

I want the material costs and I want the labor hours and the total cost for that. That allows me to make sure, number one, at the end of it, it's a clear scope of work. I know how much time they're expecting me to put on this, and I've got an idea of what their material costs. And ultimately, we want to make sure, and we'll talk about it a little bit further, is are we have, are we at a fair price?

Is this a fair price for the market? So that's going to be the important part of your repair proposal to make sure that the scope is clear, they're showing material cost, and your labor hours. Next.

[00:15:05] David Vance: So in this next segment we're going to discuss insurance claims, potential costs, and the importance of having a third-party consultant.

[00:15:12] Tommy Tusinac: So we're going to jump in with another quick poll The poll should be live and you should be able to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down

And we will address some of these poll results at the end and talk about them and address these responses. We'll just give a couple seconds for that poll to go through, and we'll keep moving on.

[00:15:39] Steve Broom: Tommy, while we're waiting on that, Yep ... John and Nikki both asked questions. John, we'll be addressing that here in a little bit in regards to the sump pumps and scavenger pumps in the pit.

And then Nikki, also we'll address that one at the end as well. That's a great question.

[00:15:53] Tommy Tusinac: I also see Daniel just shot a question in, which we will also address right at the end. Okay. Thanks for participating in the poll. We're going to close it and keep moving.

[00:16:11] Steve Broom: Hey, real quick, P- Paul B- Barry, real quick. Sorry, David, if you don't mind. Paul had a quick question on a topic that we were just on. I'd like to go and answer that real quick before I kind of forget. So Paul asked, "Does the site team have the ability to raise the elevator to the top floor in case of a water event? We were informed that only the elevator contract can do that. Please advise." You're not going to manually try to get that elevator. All you're going to do is be hitting the up button and trying to call it up to the elevator, up to the top floor to see if the elevator's actually running or not.

But you will not go in and try to drift the car up or do anything outside of a normal activity. Hopefully that answers your question, Paul.

[00:16:50] Tommy Tusinac: Thanks, Steve.

[00:16:53] David Vance: I would add to that and just say the only thing in the machine room that anybody as far as the building goes should be touching or accessing in these situations would be the mainline disconnect if there's an electrical hazard

So elevator damage claims, obviously water damage is the most common but we do see elevators that have been hit by fire and smoke damage, so some of this applies to that as well. Big question we get all the time is, "Why is elevator pricing so high?" One, it's in the elevator contractor's best interest to identify and repair as many items as possible, even though they may still be functioning now and may look like they're okay.

In the future, if there are damage shows later, they're not going to be covered and you'll be paying out of pocket for that. Obviously the elevator industry has very high labor rates, so depending on your market six hundred dollars an hour plus for a team, and those costs can get even higher if you're talking about overtime or weekend work and emergency repairs.

So there's also other trades that would possibly be involved in this, and they would need access to hoistways and machine rooms by licensed elevator mechanics or approved personnel in order to give them access to those areas where they're not allowed to be

So the importance of the consultant site visits and the areas of our expertise are we're going to help you with damage, assess the damage to the equipment. So what areas are affected, obviously machine room, car tops, sway pits, cab interiors, etc. What components are requiring repairs and replacements?

So a comprehensive list. These can get very detailed and very involved. You're looking at a bank of three elevators. You've got 27 floors. You're looking at dozens of buttons and harnesses and all types of different components. So having that comprehensive list and being able to compare to the elevator contractor's scope of work is important.

Emergency repairs. Steve touched on this. Obviously, the biggest importance to the building customers and clients is uptime. So where can we identify how to get an emergency repair done to get some or all of the elevators back up and running while we're waiting to get proposals together, parts ordered, and things approved?

Sometimes this might be stealing parts off of another elevator to get one elevator back up and running. So it's very important to document all these, and we're all on the same page as far as that emergency type repairs. There may be scenarios, especially for older units, where we have obsolete components.

And we will work with the elevator companies and contractors to identify equivalent replacements and then associated costs with those. And then obviously code compliance. If some of these items need to be retested we'll ensure that they are tested and up to code, and that they meet the industry standards for installation practices and methods.

Next slide, Tommy

[00:19:57] Steve Broom: All right, we're going to talk about the repair proposal review, and this is by whatever consultant you use or whatever third party that you've got out there. What we're looking to do as consultants and as consulting firms is, number one, we want to review to make sure it's accurate. We want to make sure that the scope of work is real to make sure it's accurate and to make sure it's truly not just a wish list, but it's a truly need list.

So the scope of work is critical to identify in the beginning. Now, there are catches to this. Obviously, once the elevator contractor gets in there and starts working, they may identify additional items that can't be foreseen by a consultant or the elevator contractor until they maybe get the elevator running.

So there's always got to be that contingency money set aside for any possible items that are identified once the elevator cars are operational, especially if it's shut down. So verifying the scope of work by a third party, by a consultant in my mind should be pretty much a given, and I'm going to give an example in the next slide.

But while we're doing that, obsolescence, like David talked about, is a major concern. It's are those parts available? Ron sent a note in the chat that we was talking about how does he navigate this process with a modernization if he's dealing with, for example, a Dover controller. Obviously, that's a major concern.

When we're reviewing this, obviously, I want you to be able to get us involved with your insurance company to be able to help navigate that as well and explain from our expertise that these parts are no longer available. They're no longer supported. This is the value of what the new replacement parts that are available to get this elevator back up and running.

The catch to that is now you're dealing with some code requirements that may have to bring it completely up to code. That's going to be a different conversation. Talk to us, talk to your consultant about the best way to navigate that because once again, at this point, now you're upgrading your control.

You've got that cost, but you've got to upgrade other components which they're not going to cover that cost. So that's going to be primarily a conversation between you, your owner, the insurance company, and probably the consultant. So obsolescence is a real thing. So make sure if that's on the table, that you're getting the right people involved for that discussion.

Verifying labor hours and pricing, kind of like I talked about before. I think it's critical on the scope of work from the elevator company that they're putting their material costs for the line items as well as the labor hours. Our job as consultants is to come in and to verify is that a realistic, material price?

Are those hours realistic hours or are they expanded or are they inflated? So what we want to do is make sure that the scope of work is accurate, it's real. And so just to make sure it's... we're not getting any pushback from insurance or anything of that nature, we've got to make sure it's accurate.

Then finally it says request clarification- negotiate pricing where required. The next one is going to be the example that I give of a job that was right here in my market that we went through, that we went through the clarifications we negotiated the price and we got them actually what they needed to be able to move forward and get these elevators back up and running.

Tommy, if you'll jump to the next slide. So I've got... I call this a case study. So once the once the damage was done, the original proposal was for three elevators. It was $536,286.61. Client reached out and said, "Hey, we're not going through insurance. Does this price seem right? Does this seem fair?" I responded with, "Let's send me over their scope of work. Let me go out and take a look at this and verify, number one, are these items justified, and if so is the pricing accurate?" So, client sent over the proposal. We reviewed it. We went out to the job site, looked at all those items and identified were items that were on there that truly did not need to be on there, that were not affected by water, that we felt should not be included in this large proposal.

After we were done with it, negotiating with the elevator contractor, we came to an agreement of a savings of $216,000, where their final price was roughly just under $320,000 for a large savings. And moving forward, all the components are covered up underneath the contract down the road as well. So it was a win-win.

Client got what they needed. Elevator company made their money. They were comfortable with the scope after we reviewed it together, and it was a win-win for everybody. But it didn't have to go to the insurance company, and it saved the client quite a bit of money. Next slide. Potential future cost. Like I said before, once the elevator's up and running, there may be additional items that could come to light.

That's very fair. It's very common. So you've got to be thinking about that, and make sure you've got conversations going on for that discussion. But there's also things, for example water and ropes do not get along. As you can see on the left picture, that's water damage that is just starting to corrode.

The rouging is just starting to start to come about. The one on the right, the rouging is much more substantial, and I would even look to those ropes to saying, "Okay, those are now going to be condemned due to the amount of rouging that occurred from the water that got in there, and the rust that has accumulated from this."

So sometimes these drops that may get onto ropes may not be seen until down the road. It's a possibility. We always want to recommend, hey, let's be smart about this. Let's reserve some money just in case. Having a consultant will hopefully give you that peace of mind that we don't feel like we would identify it if we felt like it, but obviously the little ropes, if it's something that we can't see or it hid in an area that we can't find it would still be considered water damage, and the elevator contractor is still probably going to pursue payment for the replacement.

So as you can see here, these are two sets of ropes, beginning stages, and moved on more to the really condemned stages. So please be thinking about potential future costs

All right, moving forward we're going to talk about the repair process. Once you get that, proposal going, it's going to be imperative... Tommy, go ahead, next slide. Once you get that repair proposal signed, you need to be asking questions. What are my lead times? Depending on certain components, it could be up to six months.

Especially with the tariffs and everything going on it could be dragged out. Kinda like what David talked about earlier. If that really- upsets the flow of the building. Like David said, do we need to rob from Peter to pay Paul on some of these elevators to try to get you a couple operational elevators, and really almost kind of scavenge one, and have all our replacements going onto that elevator?

So that is an option, but before you guys do that, I would definitely make sure you're talking to your elevator contractor and talking to your consultant about it as well. The review of additional work identified during the repairs. That's what I'm referring to. Once the elevator is operational and running, there may be additional items that are found.

If they are, if the elevator contractor brings it to your attention, we suggest getting your consultant involved, let us review it, let's make sure that's real. Majority of times it's going to be accurate. We just got to make sure that the pricing and the hours are going to be fair. Retain any and all damaged parts until after inspection.

We talked about this earlier. It's imperative, especially if you're going through insurance, that you want to have that evidence. You want to be able to show that, "Hey, here are the components that were affected, if you want to look at them." Once the claim is paid, the insurance claim is closed, obviously discard, get rid of them.

But it is nice to have that on-hand if there are any questions. Progress reviews. Obviously, when you've got multiple elevators that have been affected, it's a timeframe to get these up and running. It's imperative that you have progress review meetings to make sure your elevator contractor's staying on, is staying on target.

We want to make sure that nothing is affecting that schedule, and if something does come, it's identified early so you can relay that either on to ownership, possible tenants, residents, whoever's in the building being affected by the elevators being out of service. Those are the ones we want to make sure that we've got that information to pass on to them, and it's accurate.

And then finally, your final inspection. Whenever you have this work done, like for example that $300,000 worth of work, at the end of the day it's nice to have a third-party consultant come in and review to make sure all those items were replaced. Let's look at it from top to bottom and make sure you got everything you paid for.

Not to say that the elevator contractors wouldn't do it, but when there's a large scope, items can be missed by accident. It's nice to have somebody who understands the entire scope of work, knows what to look for, is supposed to be in those spaces. They're the ones identifying, saying, "Yes, all items have been completed. You're good to go." Or better yet, "We found these items still were not replaced. Let's make sure we get on top of these and get these last couple items replaced."

So the final inspection, to me, is critical to make sure you're getting everything that you're paying for. David, I'll turn it over to you for risk.

[00:28:51] David Vance: Thank you, sir. So here we're going to talk about some risk prevention measures that could majorly affect cost and downtime. Here's a couple of examples. We have a pit water sensor, otherwise known as a flooded pit switch. Fortunately, this has been adopted into the new 2022 code for A-17.1, so anything permitted now in the state, if your state has adopted 2022 this will be a feature that is mandatory.

What this item does is basically detect water in the pit, and it will take the elevator away from that landing, potentially the top floor or just away from the pit and remove it from service. Tommy, yeah. So that's a really cool feature. It's low cost, and especially if you're in an area that gets a lot of this or if you have groundwater mitigation issues this could potentially be worth every penny.

Pit sump on standby power. One of the gentlemen mentioned that earlier. So in buildings where you have a, an emergency generator that runs your elevators in a power outage, I always tell contractors on new installations to make sure that sump is tied into that. We want those features working in a power outage, especially for areas that are hurricane prone or something like that, and that elevator is going to be running in the event of a power outage.

We want that sump to be working as well. Pit drains. The code requires a sump pump or a drain where you have fireman service. I don't see a lot of pit drains, but that is in lieu of a sump pump. And then in areas that experience extreme cold like Canada and some of the northern places, they have protocols in place to winterize their sprinkler systems.

I don't see it a lot in the South but obviously there are measures to take to prevent like a cold snap and a frozen, broken sprinkler system

[00:30:49] Tommy Tusinac: We are going to jump in with one last poll. It should be sending over now. During this poll, I do want to share another slide. So this next slide has a QR code. Before we jump in a Q&A session this QR code will take you to the webinar landing page, which will have the recording available in the next twenty-four hours.

It should be up there, and it also has the PDF slide. So if you fill out if you check out that page, you'll see that the PDF slides are available, and there's also some other previous webinar content that you can check out if it interests you. One thing to note on that landing page, the first...there's a form. If you would like us to get in touch with you, you can fill out that form. It's just your name, email, and it'll... you'll get added to a list, and one of our VDA experts will be in contact with you within the next one to three, one to four business days. So if you had any questions or you need to jump off before the Q&A gets kicked off, feel free to submit that, and we will be in, in touch with you.

And with that, I will jump over to the Q&A

I see Paul, his question was answered. David, I believe you just answered John's question regarding the sump pumps

[00:32:14] David Vance: I wanted to just add another thing. The emergency generator is not the only way to provide backup power for your sump. There's other alternatives especially, like I said, if you're in a high-water area prone to hurricanes, groundwater those type of things.

There's battery backups UPS systems. Standby generator is not your only option

[00:32:33] Tommy Tusinac: Okay. So we have a question from Nikki. She asked, if an elevator has had water damage over time from water seeping in because it is exposed to the exterior of a building, what is the best approach to resolving this problem?

[00:32:47] Steve Broom: David I'll start with this one. I, ideally, the first thing is if you can waterproof it, I know you've probably already tried that, but doing every aspect to try to stop the water damage so we don't add more once we do a fix. I don't know if you've got the ability to be able to go through insurance on something like that, but my recommendation, bring a consultant in to come out and do an evaluation for you.

Be able to look at it from top to bottom and be able to see what's been affected, what has not been affected, and then from there, you can move forward with an idea of what to expect from your elevator contractor. That would be the next thing. Has your elevator contractor already provided you with a proposal for items that have been affected by the water damage?

Or better yet, have they brought up any items that said, "Hey, this is no longer covered because there's... it's been exposed to water"? So those would be some of the questions that I would be asking, but ultimately, it would be trying to get somebody, a third party in there looking out for your best interest, to look at it from top to bottom to see what's been affected, and then ultimately trying to make sure we prevent the water coming in from, any more water coming in and being additional damage.

Does that kind of answer your question?

[00:34:00] David Vance: I'll give you another example for that. First part of my career was in the DC market. DC was built on a swamp. Lot of groundwater underneath a lot of these buildings. So a lot of times in order to mitigate that, just to give you an example there would be a third-party structural company would come in, drill holes in your pit or your hoistway wall and inject a waterproofing membrane behind the wall in order to stop that intrusion into the hoistway.

[00:34:31] Tommy Tusinac: Thank you, Steve. Thank you, David. Hopefully that answered your question, and we'll move on to the next one, which is from Ron. He asks, "Water damage in equipment room. Controller has water intrusion. It's not always easy to replace board for board. Maybe controls no longer supported by original manufacturer, could force a modernization. What is the best way to navigate instance adjusters," I think "insurance adjusters that don't understand that replacing controller could have downstream other equipment, door operator Dover for instance, fixtures that may not meet current code but could've required during mod but are not themselves compromised?"

[00:35:13] Steve Broom: So this one right here, David, I'll start this one. You take over at the end if you want to add anything. Yeah, obviously when you're dealing with an insurance company and you're trying to speak elevators and they don't understand it as clear, having a consultant come in and speak on your behalf to what their experience is, what they've witnessed, and truly maybe to explain the codes, how those are affecting that controller.

Also be able to understand how the controller system does, like what you said, affects other components that may need to be required to bring to, very, to be brought up to code is imperative for him to understand from a third party who's an expert in that industry. So I think initially I would probably try to get a consultant involved to help navigate that process, but ultimately, if they're only going to give you a certain amount, it's use a consultant to be able to say, "Okay, I've got this much money. The total project is this. Let's make sure I'm getting everything I need to get to meet operational, to make sure I'm getting the tenure out of the new equipment to make sure I'm not going to see any future issues, especially quickly having issues come about." David, you want to add anything on that?

[00:36:19] David Vance: Yeah, this is where, the third-party consultant is your advocate in these situations. An insurance adjuster is not familiar with elevator code local regulatory agencies or having those contacts to be able to call when these questions do arise. Somebody mentioned a fixture that may not be ADA compliant, but wasn't damaged, doesn't need to come up to code.

This is where our expertise, especially in the local markets with local AHJs, regulatory bodies, and knowing elevator code and getting those answers qui- questions answered for you quickly is where the insurance company is a limited set of knowledge in the elevator industry. So they're looking at cost strictly and what needs to be replaced, what doesn't.

That's where our expertise comes in handy.

[00:37:09] Tommy Tusinac: Okay. Thank you, David. Thanks, Steve. We had a question that also came in a little while ago. It was from Matthew. He said he's been told that using components from one elevator on another elevator is against code. Do you happen to know what code this is referencing and when this is okay, or if... or against the code?

[00:37:27] Steve Broom: All right. I'll start with that, but I'm going to definitely shoot that one back over to David quickly, who's a QEI inspector who can really answer that question. It's all going to depend on what your age, Jason says, but where I based robbing Peter to pay Paul on elevator components, as long as they're like for and they match, is not a problem.

I've never heard it being against code to swap components between elevators, if I'm reading your question correctly. David I'll let you expand on that.

[00:37:56] David Vance: Sure. It depends on the component. There is no code that says you cannot use a replacement or take from another elevator.

There is no code reference specifically speaking to that. Now, if you're talking about buttons or a board and things of that nature that are like for absolutely, there's nothing against that. Now, if you start getting into critical safety components if there's something with a software driven SIL rating or a component in the safety circuit that's a software component, we're not going to be changing brakes over to a new car.

If we do those things like that, which is... I've never seen that done in my experience for the major safety components. They need to be tested before they're turned back over to the public.

[00:38:37] Steve Broom: Yeah. Yeah, but I don't think there's anything on code that says you can't do that. It's more of just a making sure that we're being smart.

[00:38:45] David Vance: Exactly.

[00:38:47] Tommy Tusinac: Okay. Our next question is from Paul. He asks: How do you get the insurance to pay for possible future damages, such as ropes, electrical components, that cannot be immediately identified in that claim?

[00:39:00] Steve Broom: Once again, that's where you get your elevator consultant involved when speaking with them. And I would recommend the elev- or better yet, making sure that the insurance company does not close out the claim, and letting them know that, "Hey, we may have..."

But you're gonna have to give a timeframe on it. Obviously, if the ropes have been affected by water, they should start showing within months. Know, within six months you should be pretty clear if you've got water damage or not. So I would be looking to make sure we don't close out the claim, but make sure you've got somebody speaking on your behalf to the insurance adjuster that understands elevators, that says, "Hey, this is a potential."

It can actually show you some documentation as well. David, you want to add anything to that?

[00:39:38] David Vance: Yeah, just in, in having those conversations with an insurance adjuster, for example, is we have so many cases in previous jobs where we can show these examples, "Hey, it may not look like this now.

Here's what it looked like in six months. This is why we're saying we need to replace this on the front end."

[00:39:57] Tommy Tusinac: Okay. So next question is from Lori. She asked, "Does the insurance company recognize the need of a consultant, or do they reimburse for that service?"

[00:40:08] Steve Broom: Goodness, that's a good question. I don't know if I've ever really asked a property manager if they've been reimbursed.

I'm assuming it's completely a part of their claim that we would just be stuck in with their claim to speak on their behalf, and that would be a part of the claim. I don't understand why an insurance adjuster would not pay for a consultant services that's looking out for the best interest of the insurance company and of the client.

We're there to be a medium between you and the elevator company to make sure the right components are being replaced at the right price. So but that's a question I don't know…I've never asked that, and I've never been asked that. David, how about you?

[00:40:46] David Vance: I have not. And typically this isn't an answer to your question, but our, saving grace is our costs are always, I would say 99, 100% of the time is outweighed by the savings that we present.

[00:41:01] Steve Broom: Great. That's another great point. Yeah, the savings that we're going to identify should outweigh, outweigh what our costs are.

[00:41:11] Tommy Tusinac: Okay. And it looks like the last question is from Kimberly. She asks, "We are on a very high water table and have dewatering pumps pulling water away from our building 24/7.

A few years ago, one of the pumps stopped working overnight, and we arrived to a double elevator hoist way being filled to the top with water that infiltrated through the hydraulic lift shaft. No electronics were touched, but should we be concerned with future damage to the shaft? Hoist way is in the basement below the water table."

[00:41:42] Steve Broom: On this one, your concern is once the ... Depends if you have any leaking oil. And you said this was a hydraulic. Was this a hydraulic elevator? Yes.

Yeah, it's a hydraulic. With the hydraulic, your concern now is oil that's leaked out, oil that's in the pit. And if that water raises over it, that water's all contaminated, and it needs to be disposed of properly. The one thing you want to make sure of is that you don't get water into your elevator piston.

That will damage the water, and it will need to be replaced. If you do get water into your oil that would be a concern. The most important, there's not anything really down there except for your pit channels, your buffers. And all those can be, should be able to be scrubbed from rust and things to that nature.

So as long as those rust doesn't build up where it truly destroys it, if you're getting on it quickly, I think you should be okay. David?

[00:42:37] David Vance: Yeah, honestly, it would have to be a site assessment just to kind of see how bad it was, how long it stayed there. You don't want corrosion in your jack, in your cylinder assembly.

So there's site-specific items that I would really be looking at if I was involved.

[00:42:57] Steve Broom: Kimberly, does that help with that question?

[00:43:02] Tommy Tusinac: Yeah, if anybody has any follow-up questions, feel free to drop them in the chat. We're getting to the end of the session. Yeah, Kimberly said yes. Thank you

[00:43:18] Steve Broom: All right. Does anybody have any other questions for us? You got two people on here, free information right now.

[00:43:29] Tommy Tusinac: We could take a look at the polls. We had, on the polls of people who did use an elevator consultant in the past we had about 70%. So if anybody had seen anything that they did or disliked with their service, maybe drop that in the chat and we can talk about what maybe we do differently. And then we did actually just get a comment from Bolivar.

He says, "What technical justification strategies work best when explaining elevator-related damage to insurance adjusters unfamiliar with the equipment?"

[00:44:02] Steve Broom: I think, once again, you've got to have somebody who understands the technical side that can put it in layman's terms. Like what you're saying, I think if you overdo the technical side, they get lost.

But if you can explain that technical side in layman's terms to better educate them and let them understand the significance of what's been affected and what can be compromised in the future if it's not done or not repaired, I think that's going to be the key. You've got to have somebody technical that can speak in layman's terms.

[00:44:32] David Vance: And just to add on to that, I think that past precedent, we have plenty of examples of exactly for most of these scenarios where we can show this is what was where the water was affected, this is what didn't look like it was affected, and then later down the road, here's a component that we identified and replaced.

So we have all kinds of case studies and past precedent to be able to put that in front of somebody to, to show our why we're recommending these items

[00:45:07] Steve Broom: Tommy, if that's it, I want to personally thank everybody for being a part of this call. It was such a joy to speak to you guys, and we definitely look forward to being advocates or helping you with any issues. Like Tommy said, our information was at the front. If you guys have any questions that you want to ask in addition, please don't hesitate to shoot us notes.

We'll be more than happy to give some guidance in whatever capacity.

[00:45:29] David Vance: Yeah, guys, thanks for the opportunity to speak, and any elevator questions you have, doesn't have to be about water damage just any of your conveyances in general, feel free to reach out. I'm happy to help.

[00:45:39] Tommy Tusinac: Yep.

Thank you, guys, again. We greatly appreciate you all attending, and we will be reaching out to anybody who filled out that form. I saw we got a couple submissions, so thank you, guys, again, and keep an eye out for future emails Thanks everyone. Have a good day.

[00:45:56] Steve Broom: Thanks, guys.